Dozy - More Clarification on the UN Issue?

by slimboyfat 26 Replies latest jw friends

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  Justitia Themis

  The term "Criteria for Association" refers to criteria that would apply only to those who are Associate members of the UN/DPI, there is not and never has been a registrant status with the UN/DPI.

  AuldSoul:

  I see the distinction. And, I am sure my next question has been dealt with somewhere in the volumnous threads regarding this subject. But would you favor me by explaining if the "Criteria for Association" to be an Associate member of the UN/DPI included supporting the basic goals of the UN?

  Justicia
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  AuldSoul

  The idea is the same as "goals" but the official term for it is the "principles of the UN Charter." While there has been revision of the criteria over the years, but in 1991 the criteria listed in the DPI NGO Section brochure had as its firt criterion:

  • that the NGO share the principles of the UN Charter;

  Here are those principles. Articles 1 and 2 apply, since the principles must be acted in accord with pursuant to the purposes. Determine for yourself whether a JW could share these purposes and principles, or whether doing so would supplant God's Kingdom as the means by which peace and security would be acheived.

  But, as I have said, just seeking a membership with an organization disapproved by God was gross wrongdoing (according to Governing Body standards, as judged and sentenced many times a year worldwide) even if the Criteria for Association didn't exist.

  And that is the simple fact that is so difficult for those who do not wish to see. EVERYTHING after their successful attempt to join only worsens the gross wrongdoing. The initial gross wrongdoing was seeking an organizational Associate membership to the United Nations Department of Public Information at all.

  There was a box on the application that instructed (I have the exact wording somewhere on my hard drive, but the gist was) "Explain the reason your NGO is seeking to Associate to the UN/DPI:" Any answer written in that box constituted disassociation from "the Christian congregation." Per Governing Body dogma, there is no valid reason for joining an organization disapproved by God—not even under threat of death.

  *** re chap. 29 p. 199 Singing the Triumphal New Song ***5 The 144,000 have no part with the worshipers of the wild beast, who are marked with the symbolic number 666. (Revelation 13:15-18)
  Revelation 13:14-18—And it misleads those who dwell on the earth, because of the signs that were granted it to perform in the sight of the wild beast, while it tells those who dwell on the earth to make an image to the wild beast that had the sword-stroke and yet revived. 15 And there was granted it to give breath to the image of the wild beast, so that the image of the wild beast should both speak and cause to be killed all those who would not in any way worship the image of the wild beast.
  16 And it puts under compulsion all persons, the small and the great, and the rich and the poor, and the free and the slaves, that they should give these a mark in their right hand or upon their forehead, 17 and that nobody might be able to buy or sell except a person having the mark, the name of the wild beast or the number of its name. 18 Here is where wisdom comes in: Let the one that has intelligence calculate the number of the wild beast, for it is a man’s number; and its number is six hundred and sixty-six.

  Can it be said that the WTS had "no part" with the worshippers of the wild beast while being an Associate member to the mouthpiece and spokesman of the UN, the UN Department of Public Information? Is it wrong for the 144,000 to get blemished by such a membership, but fine for the headquarter organization for Jehovah's Witnesses (in 1991) to join itself to a Secretariat Department in a subordinate role?

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
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  integ

  What I can surmise from all this is;

  Dozy truly feels that the UN thing is NOT a big deal to HIM as it pertains to his individual feelings toward the WT Management. I am concluding that Dozy feels that if the society made a "mistake" by joining as an NGO with the UN, that Dozy is willing to "let it go", or he is in effect saying "so what?" That is fine and Dozy has a right to feel whatever the heck way he wants to about ANY subject. But......he, and all other witnesses who don't think it's a big deal, should realize a very hard and indisputable fact;

  If THEY were to do the same thing, or something similar like affiliating themselves with an organization with goals contrary to witness standards, then they would be guilty of apostasy, and since the realtionship with the UN lasted over 10 years, would almost certainly be disfellowshipped and be "cut-off" from their witness family members. If Dozy is "okay" with that, or thinks it's "no big deal" than that is his right.

  I personally wouldn't give a rats behind either about them joining the UN if not for the fact that they do not allow the same leverage for the "flock", and indeed hold us to another standard altogether. If we do the same thing on a MUCH smaller scale, such as joining the "Y" or going to a bingo game at the Catholic Church, we will most likely be DF'D. Plain and simple!

  In light of that, why hasn't the Governing Body been DF'd? Aren't we all supposed to be "fellow servants in Christ?"

  Dozy, if you ever have the occasion to meet someone who has been DF'd for something like joining the "Y" or something like that (and make no mistake, they WILL DF you for something like that) and they are no longer allowed to talk with their family etc., then make sure you tell them that you're bored with their story, or that after all "it's NO BIG DEAL"!

  Thanks,

  Integ.
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  sf

  
  I would surely be interested in knowing which congregation Dozy attends/ attended. Also, who gave the local needs talk.

  Guess it shouldn't be too hard to figure out with the born again comment:

  The UN business is well known in my cong as we have a very vocal population of “born again” individuals who want to discuss the UN business every time someone calls at their door , so the brothers are well informed on the situation and the WTS defence.

  Perhaps a call to Headquarters is in order.

  sKally
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  scrubmaster

  I personally wouldn't give a rats behind either about them joining the UN if not for the fact that they do not allow the same leverage for the "flock", and indeed hold us to another standard altogether. If we do the same thing on a MUCH smaller scale, such as joining the "Y" or going to a bingo game at the Catholic Church, we will most likely be DF'D. Plain and simple!

  Thanks so much Interg --- I agree with you !
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  Justitia Themis

  In light of that, why hasn't the Governing Body been DF'd? Aren't we all supposed to be "fellow servants in Christ?" ;

  Just a thought...

  (Isaiah 1:10-18) 10 Hear the word of Jehovah, YOU dictators of Sod´om. Give ear to the law of our God, YOU people of Go·mor´rah. 11

  "Of what benefit to me is the multitude of YOUR sacrifices?" says Jehovah. "I have had enough of whole burnt offerings of rams and the fat of well-fed animals; and in the blood of young bulls and male lambs and he-goats I have taken no delight. 12 When YOU people keep coming in to see my face, who is it that has required this from YOUR hand, to trample my courtyards? 13 Stop bringing in any more valueless grain offerings. Incense—it is something detestable to me. New moon and sabbath, the calling of a convention—I cannot put up with the [use of] uncanny power along with the solemn assembly. 14 YOUR new moons and YOUR festal seasons my soul has hated. To me they have become a burden; I have become tired of bearing [them]. 15 And when YOU spread out YOUR palms, I hide my eyes from YOU. Even though YOU make many prayers, I am not listening; with bloodshed YOUR very hands have become filled. 16 Wash yourselves; make yourselves clean; remove the badness of YOUR dealings from in front of my eyes; cease to do bad. 17 Learn to do good; search for justice; set right the oppressor; render judgment for the fatherless boy; plead the cause of the widow." 18 "Come, now, YOU people, and let us set matters straight between us," says Jehovah. . . .
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  AuldSoul

  Jehovah would only do that with a people he was EVER using. If you go back to when Jesus supposedly chose these crackpots who ended up as the first modern-day Governing Body, there is no indication of a reason for Jesus picking them over many other similarly warped Millennialist organizations of the era.

  None of their doctrines was unique except that the end was coming in 1914, after that year none of their teachings was unique save their doctrine that world actually DID end in 1914, which later became the last days began in 1914 and the world WOULD end in 1925, which once again occurred on schedule until it was determined that perhaps "God's dates" (as Rutherford referred to the Bible Chronology they developed) were from a calendar that we couldn't comprehend after all..

  Now that I am out, I recognize without any reservation that the organizational ringleaders never have been what they claim to be.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul