Sickoflies Asked Me To Post This For All Of You!!!!! Please Look!

by Lady Liberty 23 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Lady Liberty

  I was going to post the follow thread, but I've used up my posts for today, maybe you could do it for me?
  
  Ok folks, I'm going to attempt to write a comphrensive thread on this subject and update it over the next few days so I will be ready for my appeal hearing (which I heard at the memorial might be this coming Monday). I went to the library at McMaster and checked out every book by Grayson I could find. However, only the one book the society quoted from had any relevent information, but the information I obtained is priceless. I'm going to type out what I've found in the book.
  
  Assyrian and Babylonian Chronicles
  By: A. K. Grayson
  
  Pg.1 Paragraph 3 - Talking about the amazing completeness of the Babylonian records of which their are over 10,000 artifacts avaible for study -
  "Of qual importance with the annals and kings list are the "diaries". The diaries were records of each day's activities during a campaign and were dictated personally by the king."
  Pg.1 Paragraph 4 - Talking about how the records reflect well upon the Old Testament.
  "In the books of the Old Testament historiography reaches unprecedented height. The clarity and beauty of style found in the acient Hebrew narratives is unique among historical documents from the ancient Near East."
  
  Pg. 10 - This basicly describes the time peroid of the first seven Chronicles which starts at 747 B.C. with the reign of Nabunasir and goes until the Persian conquest of Babylon in (his words) "539 B.C."
  
  Pg. 17 on Chronicle 2 "This portion of the Neo-Babylonian Chronicle Series covers the peroid from the accession of Nabopolassar (626 B.C.) to his third regnal year (623 B.C.).
  
  Pg. 18 on Chronicle 3 "The peroid of time covered by this chronicle extends from the tenth to the seventeenth regnal year of Nabopolassar (616-609 B.C.)
  
  **** Pg. 19 on Chronicle 4 "The narration of Chronicle 4 begins where Chronicle 3 ended which is the eighteenth year of Nabopolassar (608 B.C.) and continues to his twentieth year (606 B.C). There are virtually no breaks in the tablet." Note, the author makes speical mention of the completeness of the documents from this era. The chronicle speaks of raids and has elaborate records including dates of many Babylonian conquests!
  
  Pg. 19 on Chronicle 5 "Chronicle 5 picks up the narrative at the point it was left by Chronicle 4, that is the twenty-first year of Nabopolassar (605 B.C.), and continues until the tenth year of Nebuchadnezzar II (595 B.C.)." This document speaks of furth conquests by the Babylonians in Egypt.
  
  Pg. 20 on Chronicle 6 "This text concerns the third regnal uear of Neriglissar (557 B.C.)"
  
  **** Pg. 21 on Chronicle 7 "The Nabonidus Chronicle is a narration of events beginning with the accession of Nabonidus in Babylon (556 B.C.) and ending sometime after the capture of Babylon by Cyrus (539 B.C.)."
  
  Notice that there is NO break at all in the narriative from the start of Chronicle 1 to 7, the documents consist of almost daily records of everything that happen right up to the capture of Babylon in 539 B.C. I'm heading home now, and I'm going to search the CD for all the leaders and dates mentioned in the above pages. If the society has ever even used ONE of the dates then they are screwed. I am also going to upload the above mentioned pages in JPG or PDF format soon.
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  Legolas

  "This portion of the Neo-Babylonian Chronicle Series covers the peroid from the accession of Nabopolassar (626 B.C.)

  Now the WT CD in IT 2 under Medes then history...

  Following the Median capture of Asshur in Nabopolassar’s 12th year (634 B.C.E.)
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  Lady Liberty

  Thank you!! Great info!! We really appreciate your hard work Dan!!

  Sincerely,

  Lady Liberty
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  Legolas

  "Chronicle 5 picks up the narrative at the point it was left by Chronicle 4, that is the twenty-first year of Nabopolassar (605 B.C.), and continues until the tenth year of Nebuchadnezzar II (595 B.C.)."

  Now the CD WY 2000 5/15

  Learning that his father, Nabopolassar, had died, this young man named Nebuchadnezzar took the throne in 624 B.C.E
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  stevenyc

  SickOfLies, this may be of interest to you. Its taken from the Insight book.

  steve

  JEHOIACHIN(Je·hoi´a·chin) [probably, Jehovah Has Firmly Established].

  Son of Judean King Jehoiakim by Nehushta. (2Ki 24:6, 8; 2Ch 36:8) He is also called Jeconiah (a variant of Jehoiachin) and Coniah (a contraction of Jeconiah).—Es 2:6; Jer 28:4; 37:1.

  At the age of 18 Jehoiachin became king and continued the bad practices of his father. (2Ki 24:8, 9; 2Ch 36:9, ftn) Jehoiachin’s father, Jehoiakim, had been under subjection to Babylonian King Nebuchadnezzar but rebelled in his third year of such vassalage (618 B.C.E.). (2Ki 24:1) This resulted in a siege being laid against Jerusalem. The expression "during that time" (2Ki 24:10) may refer, not to Jehoiachin’s brief reign, but to the general period in which it fits, hence allowing for the siege to have begun during his father Jehoiakim’s reign, as Daniel 1:1, 2 seems to indicate. It appears that Jehoiakim died during this siege and Jehoiachin ascended the throne of Judah. His rule ended, however, a mere three months and ten days later, when he surrendered to Nebuchadnezzar in 617 B.C.E. (in the month of Adar, according to a Babylonian chronicle). (2Ki 24:11, 12; 2Ch 36:9; Assyrian and Babylonian Chronicles, by A. Grayson, 1975, p. 102) In fulfillment of Jehovah’s word through Jeremiah, he was taken into Babylonian exile. (Jer 22:24-27; 24:1; 27:19, 20; 29:1, 2) Other members of the royal household, court officials, craftsmen, and warriors were also exiled.—2Ki 24:14-16; see NEBUCHADNEZZAR.

  The record at 2 Kings 24:12-16 states that Nebuchadnezzar took these captives into exile, along with "all the treasures of the house of Jehovah and the treasures of the king’s house." The account at Daniel 1:1, 2 refers to only "a part of the utensils" as being taken to Babylon. The explanation may be that the treasures referred to at Second Kings involved particularly the gold utensils, which are emphasized in that account, and that other utensils were allowed to remain. Another possibility is that, when Jerusalem yielded to the Babylonian siege (which came as a result of Jehoiakim’s rebellion against the king of Babylon), "some of the utensils of the house of Jehovah" were taken to Babylon, and a short time later, when Jehoiachin himself was transferred to Babylon, other "desirable articles of the house of Jehovah" were taken along. This possibility is suggested by the account at 2 Chronicles 36:6-10. From the Chronicles account, it appears that Nebuchadnezzar, after successfully conquering Jerusalem, departed but then "sent and proceeded to bring [Jehoiachin] to Babylon with desirable articles of the house of Jehovah." In a similar way, ten years later, in the final conquest and destruction of Jerusalem (607 B.C.E.), Nebuchadnezzar retired to Riblah "in the land of Hamath," leaving the postconquest details to his chief of the bodyguard, Nebuzaradan.—2Ki 25:8-21.

  While in Babylon, Jehoiachin fathered seven sons. (1Ch 3:16-18) In this way the royal line leading to the Messiah was preserved. (Mt 1:11, 12) But, as prophecy had indicated, none of Jehoiachin’s descendants ever ruled from earthly Jerusalem. It therefore was as though Jehoiachin had been childless, with no offspring to succeed him as king.—Jer 22:28-30.

  In the fifth year of Jehoiachin’s exile, Ezekiel began his prophetic work. (Eze 1:2) About 32 years later, evidently in 580 B.C.E., Jehoiachin was released from prison by Nebuchadnezzar’s successor Evil-merodach (Awil-Marduk) and given a position of favor above all the other captive kings. Thereafter he ate at Evil-merodach’s table and received a daily allowance.—2Ki 25:27-30; Jer 52:31-34.

  Babylonian administrative documents have been found listing rations for Jehoiachin and five of his sons.
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  tmo1965

  Notice that there is NO break at all in the narriative from the start of Chronicle 1 to 7, the documents consist of almost daily records of everything that happen right up to the capture of Babylon in 539 B.C. I'm heading home now, and I'm going to search the CD for all the leaders and dates mentioned in the above pages. If the society has ever even used ONE of the dates then they are screwed.

  Well they're screwed!!!!!!! The WTS has used those exact dates when discussing the various rulers of that time period, but they always revert to the 607 BC garbage when talking about Nebuchadnezzar. I was banned from a JW infested forum for posting this information.

  http://www.reexamine.org/quotes/607bce.htm

  http://www.reexamine.org/quotes/607bce-table.htm

  Even JWs agree with the 539 BC date for the capture of Babylon, so with the info in the above links you got 'em.
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  Double Edge

  AGAIN, I think Farkel's using the WT literature to substantiate 587 is brilliant. Here it is:
  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/12/74549/1.ashx 587 for total Dunderheads If you're a dunderhead on Neo-Babylonian history (like me) you've probably remained totally clueless whenever the subject of the chronology leading to back 607 B.C. comes up. Since I had nothing better to do today, I decided to finally take the time it takes to understand why dub chronology on that date is wrong. This piece of information alone should give you a clue about how bored I am! It turns out this stuff is a piece of cake! The tricky part was filtering through the obfuscating WTS comments on the matter, and I won't bother you with that. However, using ONLY comments by the faithful and discrete slavers we can rather easily see that their chronology regarding 607 B.C. is wrong. There is really not much to learn here, either: No astronomy, no neo-Babylonian tablets, and no confusing Bible versus will be presented. Just the names of five people with really funny names, and only several quotes from WTS publications will be used. Also, there is no need to quibble over things like regnal years, assession years, cardinal and ordinal numbers, whatever in-the-hell THEY are. Remember, the WTS's claim of 607 B.C. is a full TWENTY years earlier than the accepted date of 586/87 B.C. and all the tinkering with a few months here and few partial year reigns there cannot make up a difference of twenty years.
  Another tricky part to remember is that people were very primitive in those years before Christ came up with a sensible calendar that actually counts FORWARD as you go forward rather than BACKWARD as you go forward. This is known as the "really stupid ancient people RULE." It's a wonder those folks could survive at all.
  Most of what we need is found in a single paragraph of the WTS book "Babylon the Grape Has Fallen - God's Kingdom Rocks!" ("Fallen Baby") on page 184 . To keep things simple, I will paraphrase this paragraph, but include the actual paragraph at the end for reference. We have to start some 68 years AFTER the date of Jerusalem's fall with a date and event that is agreed upon by both the WTS and secular historians. From this date we will count backward by counting forward using the "really stupid ancient people RULE." That date is 539 B.C., the date that Babylon fell to Cyrus the Mede ("Cy"). Keep in mind we are trying to find the date Jerusalem fell and the Genital Times began. "Fallen Baby" tells us that Nabonidus ("Nabby") was King when Babylon fell in 539 B.C. The WTS book "Aid to Bible Understanding" tells that "Nabby" ruled seventeen years from 556 to 539 B.C. We are now back to 556 B.C. "Fallen Baby" tells us that before Nabby, Labashi-Marduk ("Laby the Duck") ruled about nine months. It also tell us that before "Laby The Duck," Neriglissar ("Glissy") ruled for four years. So if we go backwards 4 years and nine months from 556 B.C. we're now at 560-561 B.C.

  "Fallen Baby" also tells us that before "Glissy", Evil-Merodach ("Evil Duck") ruled for 2 years. We are now back to 562-563 B.C. and to the last year of the reign of King Nebuchadnezzer ("Chad").
  On page 1212 of the Aid to Bible Understanding book we are told that "Chad" ruled 43 years.
  
  562/563 + 43 years = 605/606 BC, the year when "Chad" started ruling Babylon.
  

  2nd Kings 25:8-10 tells us that Jerusalem was destroyed in the 19th year of "Chad's" reign, so if we go forward 19 years from 605/606 B.C. we will have the approximate years of the beginning of the Genital Times.

  
  Using the "really stupid ancient people RULE" to go forward when you want to go backward we get:
  
  605/606 B.C. - 19th year of "Chad's" reign = 586/587 B.C!
  
  That's it! It's that simple.
  

  Let's summarize:
  

  "Nabby" ruled Babylon for 17 years from 556 to 539 B.C. Cy messed up Babylon in 539 B.C.
  

  Before that, "Laby the Duck" ruled for 9 months and "Glissy" ruled for 4 years.
  

  "Evil Duck" ruled for 2 years.
  

  "Chad" ruled for 43 years.
  
  17 years + 9 months + 4 years + 2 years + 43 years = 66 to 67 years.
  

  Starting at 539 B.C. and going back 66/67 years we arrive at 605/606 B.C. or the start of the reign of "Chad." Remember, none of this would be possible without using the "really stupid ancient people RULE. "
  Nineteen years after 605/606 B.C. using this stupid RULE brings us to 586/587 B.C.

  This is so simple that everyone but the Watchtower Society can understand it.
  Oh. Yeah, I did state I was taking a leave from the board. I claim my constitutional right to "Theocratic War Strategy," and these are "critical times hard to deal with," so don't start hazing me. I have Bible-Based(tm) reasons that are irrefutible. References

  Insight on the Scriptures under "Chaldea""

  "Particularly was this domination manifest during the seventh and sixth centuries B.C.E. when Nabopolassar, a native of Chaldea, and his successors, Nebuchadnezzar II, Evil-merodach (Awil-Marduk), Neriglissar, Labashi-Marduk, Nabonidus, and Belshazzar, ruled the Third World Power, Babylon."

  Babylon the Great Has Fallen - God's Kingdom Rules, page 184:

  "After reigning but two years King Evil-Merodach was murdered by his brother-in-law Neriglissar. According to the inscriptions that have been found, this usurper of the throne spent most of his time in building operations and reigned four years. When he died, his son Labashi-Marduk, though not yet of age, succeeded him. He was a vicious boy, and within nine months he had his throat cut by an assassin. Nabonidus, who had served as Governor of Babylon and who had been Nebuchadnezzar's favorite son-in-law, now took the throne and had a fairly glorious reign till Babylon fell in 539 B.C."

  Aid to Bible Understanding on Nabonidus - P 1195:

  "Last supreme monarch of the Babylonian Empire...On the basis of cuneiform texts he is believed to have rule some seventeen years (556-539 B.C.E.)."
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  Legolas

  Here's also a page http://www.livius.org/cg-cm/chronicles/abc5/jerusalem.html
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  AuldSoul

  Very nice!

  *** it-1 p. 453 Chronology ***
  Other factors allowing for differences. Casual students of ancient history often labor under the misconception that the cuneiform tablets (such as may have been used by Berossus) were always written at the same time or shortly after the events recorded on them. But, aside from the many cuneiform business documents that were truly contemporary, the Babylonian historical texts and even many astronomical texts often give evidence of being of a much later period.

  Casual students of the WTS publications may not know that the "many...business documents that were truly contemporary" number in the tens of thousands and form an uninterrupted record of the entire line of kings and their regnal years. These are the "ancient writings" that "have been found" referred to in the Live Forever book on page 55.

  They know what these documents contain. And they pray that students of WTS publications NEVER become AVID students of ancient history. In fact, for the sake of the maturity of the sheep, they hope such ones do not progress beyond WTS publications. That is the safest course leading to death.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
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  Lady Liberty

  It appears that Jehoiakim died during this siege and Jehoiachin ascended the throne of Judah. His rule ended, however, a mere three months and ten days later, when he surrendered to Nebuchadnezzar in 617 B.C.E. (in the month of Adar, according to a Babylonian chronicle). (2Ki 24:11, 12; 2Ch 36:9; Assyrian and Babylonian Chronicles, by A. Grayson, 1975, p. 102)

  Thanks Stevenyc,

  I still have that A.K. Grayson book that Sickoflies checked out too. On page 102 it reads EXACTLY like this (verse 12): He encamped against the city of Judah and on the second day of the month Adar he captured the city (and) seized (its) king.

  This is the only place I see that the month of Adar was spoken of on this page. A average JW would read the above highlighted area and ASSUME that their comments were verified in this book of A.K. Graysons.

  Another example of DELIBERATE DECEPTION!!!

  Sincerely,

  Lady Liberty