Apparently Randy had already posted this info under friends. For any further discussion go to:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/110963/1.ashx
Swalker
WTS STILL HAS NGO ASSOCIATE STATUS!
by SWALKER 23 Replies latest watchtower scandals
-
-
AuldSoul
I'm sorry, but I don't see how this is any different than an appeal to Caesar. They are not associate members of anything just because they register (and they really did register for these) to speak out about their religion being oppressed at a conference.
Paul Gillies is not an NGO, an individual can't be an organization—governmental or non-govermental.
The European Association of Jehovah's Christian Witnesses is a non-governmental organization, but so is the local volunteer fire department—calling them an NGO is as meaningless as calling me white, it just describes me by a characteristic of mine. It just describes the kind of organization they are, i.e. a non-governmental one.
Watchtower Bible & Tract Society of Pennsylvania is and always has been an NGO, unless you believe they are a governmental organization. They always will be an NGO unless they become a governmental organization.
That page Randy has up, has some pretty damning stuff on it, but this isn't damning at all. In fact, it is incorrect. This doesn't show them as associate members to any organization, it shows them registering to appeal to committees on behalf of their religious freedom. They have never shied away from this and have defended this type of involvement repeatedly in their literature. I don't agree with their double-standard on it, but it isn't a hypocritical double-standard. They seem proud of this double-standard.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul -
SWALKER
The European Association of Jehovah's Christian Witnesses is a non-governmental organization, but so is the local volunteer fire department—
Did the fire department show up for the conference?
AS...We all understand what the term NGO means...but there is no other way to state what the WTS is doing without using that word. It may not seem important to you in the least but to some of us it is the ultimate in hypocrisy!!! You have your reasons for leaving....but some of us left over this issue. It goes against everything the WTS taught us in MY opinion!
Maybe we should rename the board after you...it seems that you feel you are right about everything and it's your way or no way. I appreciate your comments and your viewpoints, not that I necessarily agree with them all the time, but I don't feel you have to attack others for their views.
Check out Randy's thread and he basically sees it the same way.....I hope you don't attack him as well.
Swalker
-
WLG
Don't take mine as an attack...I was being the Devil's (the Org's) advocate...
-
SWALKER
WLG...I don't! It's just there was another poster who said he didn't think we should cut and paste so much...There was a ton of infomation provided at the link posted and I was trying to give a short version as to the info in the link. In the process, it was kind of confusing.
To family members that are still in, this will come as a shock to a few of them and I have already e-mailed it out. I think one more member of my family may leave because of this. Just thought it was worth showing to the posters....if they hadn't seen it already.
I didn't mean to stir up WWIII....
Swalker
-
AuldSoul
I'm not attacking you, SWALKER. You titled this thread "WTS STILL HAS NGO ASSOCIATE STATUS!"
It may, but nothing you posted demonstrated that it is an NGO Associate member of any organization. I already address the same points on Randy's thread, because if we don't get this right we prove what they say about us true. There isn't time to let the wrong stuff soak in so that it is remebered first.
As soon as we see that we have something wrong we have to be willing to self-correct, that is the single biggest tactical advantage we have over the WTS. We can change quickly, they take years to budge.
NGO means something, Associate means something.
This phrase "Associate Status" means something all by itself, whether "NGO" or "NPO" is in front of it or not. "Associate" is a membership type. Which organization on that page is a JW organization an Associate member of?
You have your reasons for leaving....but some of us left over this issue.
I left because the WTS was an Associate member of the UN/DPI for almost 10 years. I didn't leave because they were an NGO. And neither did you, if you know what the term NGO means.
There is not one shred of JW doctrine that is violated by them being an NGO, they have been an NGO ever since 1879.
I don't give a damn whether you believe I am right or not, SWALKER. You are welcome to your opinions about anything I say or do. I do give a damn whether you accidentally state a lie that remains on this forum for a lurker to read and get the facts wrong from, or for them to read and confirm for themselves that we lie about the WTS. If I see something posted that violates the facts as the UN/DPI (or other reputable organizations) states them, I will correct it for as long as I post here.
Whether you believe it or not, I am not your enemy. We are all in this together. Two years ago I'd have called you a liar for saying the WTS had ANY involvement with the UN or its agencies. I was wrong, specifically. There is no shame in being wrong. I'm glad someone was there to help me find how much other stuff I was wrong about. But I have researched this issue carefully to make sure that the CO and WTS and my dad (the local PO) could NOT catch me saying something that wasn't true. I knew with just one slip it would be closed minds.
As it turns out, since my dad could find no factual flaw whatsoever in my account of events (although he tried so hard, with the Service Desk's help) my dad now believes I am lying about how I came by the information. The source of admittedly true information mattered to him and tainted the information itself.
Again, whether you believe it or not, I am not your enemy.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul -
Atlantis
Some things to consider! (Paragraph 3 here: http://www.state.gov/p/eur/rls/rm/34606.htm I also want to commend your efforts to promote a United Nations General Assembly resolution on anti-Semitism. The United States worked very diligently with other nations last year to promote such a resolution condemning anti-Semitism and we were disappointed that it did not succeed. We were able to achieve three resolutions adopted by the UN General Assembly’s Third Committee and one resolution adopted by the Commission on Human Rights which recognized with deep concern the rise of anti-Semitism. It was also significant that one of the Third Committee resolutions was adopted by consensus. But the work must continue. The June Conference on anti-Semitism hosted by Secretary General Annan was also an important part of this process, during which he called on UN member states to "follow the excellent lead of the Berlin Declaration….condemning, without reservation, all manifestations of anti-Semitism and all other acts of intolerance…." (Look under---- Follow-on Conference on Anti-Semitism) http://www.state.gov/p/eur/rls/rm/34606.htm
Follow-on Conference on Anti-Semitism?
We also are looking at an invitation of the Government of Spain to meet in Cordoba next year on anti-Semitism. The Conferences in Vienna and Berlin were at high political levels and attracted considerable publicity. We hope that another OSCE meeting would focus on helping the OSCE members to implement the new commitments that they made in Maastricht and at Berlin. In other words, the Conference could be at a senior expert level and include an agenda designed to foster specifics of how to carry out the commitments in the areas of law enforcement, legislation and education.
The U.S. Ambassador to the OSCE, Stephan M. Minikes will be working with his 54 counterparts to determine how best to implement the Berlin Declaration, to include the possibility of a Special Representative for anti-Semitism and a follow-on meeting with-in the OSCE. The OSCE Parliamentary Assembly met in Edinburgh earlier this month and in their concluding document they requested that the Bulgarian Chairmanship designate, a personal envoy of the Chairman-in-Office, to ensure sustained attention in fulfilling OSCE commitments highlighted in the Berlin Declaration.
One important aspect is how to manage our efforts at combating anti-Semitism in relation to other activities of the OSCE and ODHIR. As you know, the OSCE is in the final stages of planning the Conference on Racism, Xenophobia and Discrimination which will be held in Brussels September 13 and 14, 2004 and is designed as a parallel event to the Berlin anti-Semitism Conference.
To what extent should future steps to curb anti-Semitic hate crimes be taken in parallel with anti-racist or xenophobic hate crimes? Currently, Ambassador Strohal’s mandate involves all tolerance issues. We certainly want to keep the European political focus on fighting anti-Semitism, but in the European political environment, if we can achieve more progress by combining this issue in the implementation with other current issues of concern for European societies such as racism, xenophobia and discrimination, why should we not do so? This is a question which we need to examine carefully for the future, and it relates to the decisions about a Special Representative and to the possibility of a follow-on Conference in Cordoba or elsewhere. This is especially an issue as European nations become more and more multicultural, resulting from more open borders and immigration within the new Europe, whole and free.
While these are important steps that have been taken so far, we are under no illusions that a solution to this problem is at hand. The roots of anti-Semitism are deep, and continuing tensions caused by terrorism and conflict in the Middle East make the issue more complex. President Bush and Secretary Powell have dealt with this issue in a firm and forthright manner and are doing everything possible to make anti-Semitism the historic anachronism that it is.
************************************************************************************************
Who's authority are Watchtower representatives placing themselves under when they attend these conferences? Who's permission are they requesting to attend? Who are they associating with?
What are they helping to promote at these conferences? How many times do we find the word "political" in these documents? What about the word "commitment?"
Are Watchtower reps really "standing" and waiting on Jehovah for protection? Or are they collaborating with "worldly political" organizations seeking their help and protection against hate crimes, torture, anti-semitism and other form of intolerance?
OSCE NGO Conference Application Form:
http://www.badongo.com/pic/150296
http://www.osce.si/docs/2005-06-08-09-cordoba-boj-proti-nestrpnosti-prijava-nvo.pdf
OSCE International Organizations Registration Form
http://www.badongo.com/pic/150300
OSCE Delegation Registration Form
http://www.badongo.com/pic/150302
What organization name must be included on application forms such as the ones above?
Watchtower Bible And Tract Society? European Association of Jehovah's Christian Witnesses?
What are some of the main messages and pledges associated at these Anti-Semitism conferences?
(see last paragraphs on this page)
http://germany.info/relaunch/politics/speeches/042804.html
But we must remember that the best intentions are not enough. They have to be followed up by political action. I therefore hope that this conference will produce concrete results and conclude with a clear message.
That message should be
- that we condemn anti-Semitism in all its forms as a violation of human dignity,
- that we will create instruments to record and monitor anti-Semitic incidents in the OSCE, so that we are in a position to counter them effectively,
- and that we make a political pledge to publicly and resolutely tackle all forms of anti-Semitism.
This pledge will bind us all. All states and citizens in the OSCE should know that their conduct vis-à-vis citizens of the Jewish faith will be measured against this yardstick.
We want to set standards for our actions. And we want to show the Jewish communities in our countries that their concerns for their safety and future in our midst are our concerns, too – our concerns and a basic issue for our democracies.
Thank you.
published April 28, 2004
(See pages 9-15 for registrations forms here:)
http://www.auswaertiges-amt.de/www/de/infoservice/download/pdf/friedenspolitik/ciogal0057.pdf
No matter which way you choose to look at the situation, it still spells out (HYPOCRISY AND APOSTACY) according to the Watchtower's own definition!
Cheers!
-
Lady Lee
I suspect the WTS would say they are there to get legal info that can help them in the persecution they experiuence in many European countries.
We all know of their "divinely blessed fight for human rights" . They would probably claim this is how they show they are anti-semeitc because they rights they attain can be applied to other groups.
But that still doesn't excuse them for signing forms that clearly state that a commitment is required for politiacl action.
Mind you we also know how easily they redife words to suit their purpose.
-
Tea4Two
Shouldn't the WTS be waiting on Jehovah instead of relying on another organization to help them out? Jehovah after-all is God almighty! Put your trust in Jehovah!
-
just2sheep
auld soul,
or anyone else for that matter. can you point out any other government, social agency, or any other organization, besides the united nations, that uses the term ngo? if the united nations are the only ones; then anytime the term is used you are by definition associating with the un...the un has no reason or interest to list anyone as an ngo unless there is an association. i don't know about where you live but around here the "volunteer" fire department is a governmental agency with a taxing district and other government funds being available. but the only ones that would consider any organization an NGO is the UNITED NATIONS. if there are any governments, organizations, religions, corporations, or individuals, other than auld soul, that use the term NGO in anyway not connected to the UN, please give us their names.
as far as doctrine is concerned...the only doctrine that the wtb&ts is truly concerned is the doctrine of cover your own ass, all other doctrines are subject to change. auld soul your comment about individuals not being organizations is only true to a point, individuals represent organizations. as far as educating people is concerned, please educate those who don't know; what are the chances of a member of the wtb&ts registering at a united nations conference on their own?
j2s