Resurrection of dead loved ones......

by Sunnygal41 21 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Narkissos

  There are a lot of unsuperable logical problems with the doctrine of resurrection anyway. The painful apologies of this belief in the NT (e.g. Jesus against the Sadducees in Mark 12//, or Paul against the Corinthian spiritualists in 1 Corinthians 15) do little more than toning down the "physical" aspects of resurrection to avoid the most obvious problems ("they are like the angels in heaven," in the Synoptics; "spiritual bodies" in Paul), but as a result the "resurrection" they present is hard to distinguish from mere soul survival.

  Belief in soul survival doesn't imply belief in (bodily) resurrection. It can dispense with it altogether. On the other hand, belief in resurrection does imply belief in something which is to be resurrected -- something more that the material body which comes back to dust.

  The Sadducees consistently denied both soul survival and resurrection. The Pharisees consistently accepted both. JWs blend the Sadducean denial of soul survival with the Pharisee's belief in resurrection into a modern concept of objective memories + recreation (whence the technical analogies of voice and image recording, and more recently DNA "codes"). It is definitely not a "scriptural" view, but it can work on the shallowest technical minds.

  The Sadducees were mostly impopular aristocrats. The Pharisees were mostly popular laymen. This sociological aspect is still valid. A religion won't be popular if it doesn't offer individual hope in the face of death. Past a certain level of education such a "hope" becomes very difficult to accept.
• 

  Sunnygal41

  GreenDawn, I’m with you on the confusion about scriptures for and against……….seems like they are open to anyone’s dare I say those bad words “individual interpretation”? Unc…..One I remember involved the resurrection of miscarried babes……..uh….now that’s just plain yucky……………. Pre computer days, Jehovah's memory was likened to a big book with colums of names written in pencil and a big rubber dangling from a string. LMAO! a “rubber”……..I’m guessing you mean an eraser? LOL! We call condoms “rubbers” here in the States…….. Moggy Lover…………..I'm not entirely sure that this is what you are looking for, SG41, but one of the verses that the WTS uses is found in Ps 25:7, where David pleads with Yahweh to "remember" him. According to the WTS, then, David was in God's "Memory" complete with his entire DNA record………BINGO that’s the passage!!!! Thanks!!! TheListener………..don’t feel dumb……….I’m sure many of us did the same thing on different issues………..it’s called brainwashing….. my own beliefs have morphed over the years on this subject and I now feel I’ve amassed enough evidence to prove to myself that “we” are made up of several parts………some are physical and interact with the physical world, some are capable of accessing higher planes of the Universe………some of these we call “spiritual”………. Unc………..The resurection doctrine exposes the Watchtower Society's mechanistic rationalised view of human life….yep, it’s pretty sad, huh? I remember an older couple we studied with for awhile……..or rather we used to go to their house and “chat” with them………..anyways, we finally convinced them to come to a meeting………..they were extremely disappointed. The husband said that there was no emotion or liveliness in our service………..that really went to MY heart at the time….you know those little twinges that are seeds of discontent………I call them my intuition chiming in to let me know to pay attention to what’s being said…… Honesty…………28 Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear his voice 29 and come out, those who did good things to a resurrection of life, those who practiced vile things to a resurrection of judgment. . …..ooooh, YEAH!!! That is indeed one of the ones that I was looking for!!! And, yes, I, too find it quite interesting that all the other versions render it grave…………lots and lots of cool information you shared with us on here, thanks!!! To all who have thus far responded…………thank you!!! Lots of food for thought…….. Ter
• 

  Sunnygal41

  I'm sorry all the above ran together, my quote box isn't working........it's actually missing............and, I've noticed everything just comes out in one big paragraph, even if I put separations in............ Ter
• 

  Cabin in the woods

  This is a very major issue in my life. Uncle Bruce, I understand your mothers feelings in this matter and yes, I also remember that carrot that they threw out years ago stating that if you wanted your baby/ies to have a chance at the resurrection then you had better walk the straight and narrow and be completely obedient.

  This winter it this topic that was the final disagreement sending me running away from the organization. Even when I used the scripture that spoke of Jah knowing us in our embryonic state I was met with ... but the "society" now states that unbreathing babies do not get resurrected based on a principle. They wanted to explain that principle and I refused to let them. Hogwash!

  I little while ago I read a most interesting post and I think it might have been on JWD stating the belief of dieing completely and then returning to a different body is actually part and parcel of the recincarnation. When I read this I knew that was it! I think that they are including the reincarnation belief to a degree in their fairy tale.

  I hope that this makes sense I have not even sipped my morning coffee yet.

  Cab
• 

  unclebruce

  Thanks sunnygal (I needed that rubber/eraser info real quick in a reply to mary). I hope your posting woes end soon (you might need tt re-boot your computer - and check what mode you are in at the bottom left of the posting box - Design or HTML (sorry i'm no computer nerd)

  :::

  Yes, you make a lot of sense Cab,

  The WBTS once argued strongly that babies breath in the womb. Anyway we're not relying on those morons for spiritual guidence anymore.

  So we reincarnate back into ourselves lol .. curiouser and curiouser.. One thing I'd still like to do is check out the Bethel library - the resourse that the writing dept and Governing Body use. I suspect there are books in there not allowed the rank and file JW's.

  wakey wakey .. happy good friday unc.
• 

  Sunnygal41

  Unc, you be very welcome, mate.........glad I could help out! : - P
• 

  nelly136

  its from the borg site and in the same paragraph as the gods memory scriptures Honesty,

  Appeared in The Watchtower July 15, 2002.

  i put the link in case anyone fancied looking at the whole cheesy article.
• 

  anewme

  We just assume, those of us who bought into the whole ressurrection theory, that this life is not all there is and that we will see the sun again and hear the birds sing again and have garbage to carry out again and all the chores-----oh drudge and bore. Life goes on and on and on and on and on and on.
  
  
  But I dont think so.
  
  
  We accept and moan that our dear little pets were wonderful, but now they are dead and gone and well that is that for them.
  
  Why do we have such a hard time believing what is right before our eyes? When a person dies we never see that person again!
  
  Adam and Eve never came back. Hitler never came back. Nostradamos, Benjamin Franklin, Martin Luther King, Liberace, Marilyn Monroe, Ghandi, Princess Diana, Jesus Mary and Joseph, Muhammed, Dr. Gene Scott, Erma Bombeck, Mark Twain, Mozart, Napolean Bonaparte,....(it is exhausting emotionally to think of the vast cast of people who have come and gone)
  
  I want to stop living a fairy tale of false hope and understand and appreciate reality.
  All these religions are trying to sell us a hope for tomorrow. They want us to forget today. They want us to think today is of little importance. That tomorrow (after we are dead) is everything. And they want to sell us the ticket to tomorrowland.
  
  I believe in God and lifes importance. But I think all breathing creatures go back to the ground and become part of the earth again where their molecules originally came from. The spark of life goes back to the god.
  
  Smart plants we may be.
  
  My cat died yesterday.
  
  And today she is no more. I have all this cat food and no cat to feed today and I am just trying to figure it all out. She was trying to tell me something yesterday and I was too busy to pet her or brush her.
  
  Now this is just a cat. What about my loved ones (the few I have left) One day will be like this.....they will not be in this life and I will look out over the green hills and see the sky and clouds knowing my loved one has gone back to the nature where all life comes from. One day it will be me to dissappear from this earth.
  
  Why fear it? Why loathe it? Why hate it? Why not embrace it and allow that embracing to change the way we live now? Let us live with more appreciation, more love, more patience, more treasuring, more laughter, more tolerance, more smiles, more thankfullness and gratitude for this once in a lifetime fantastic experience!
  
  Its just a thought. And believe me it is hard for me to speak like this. I am usually the spokesperson for the ressurrection belief.
  
  Im just so tired of the religious struggle and unanswerable questions and unknowable answers.
  I am going to embrace and accept what I see around me. For that is my reality. It may be all I really have.
  
  Anewme
• 

  Leolaia

  Sunnygal41....I asked just those same questions when I was 8 years old! At one of the book studies, we were going over the Life book and I remember well we were reading the following two paragraphs:

  *** lp chap. 15 p. 175 par. 16 The End of Sickness and Death ***

  As to the resurrected ones, God will accurately "re-create" each individual with his entire life pattern, personality and memory just as it was. The one resurrected will be able to identify himself as the same person. Also, his former associates will know him by his appearance and characteristics. He can then resume life after the interruption caused by his death, possessing the same motivations, leanings and traits that he displayed beforehand. However, his past sins and mistakes will not be brought up as charges against him. Why not? Because God’s purpose in bringing him back to earth is to provide opportunity for him to take advantage of Christ’s sacrifice and be freed of sin. Yet, what the individual did in the past, if bad, would have its effect on his personality, and the resulting bad traits would have to be overcome. The more unrighteous his past course was, the more he will have to change. Some may not take advantage of the opportunity to change.—Isaiah 26:10.

  To the person who is resurrected, the time period that he was dead would be, to him, only an instant, since death is a nonexistence. It is likened in the Bible to a deep sleep. (John 11:11-14; 1 Thessalonians 4:13, 14; Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10) Thousands of years, or a day, would seem like only a moment of time. To the one resurrected, the experience would be like walking through a doorway out of the present wicked system of things into the righteous, orderly new system of things.

  And the book earlier explained the concept of resurrection with the following picture:

  

  And none of this made any sense to me! So the little eight-year-old that I was at the time raised my hand and asked them how a "re-created" person is actually the same person that died if death is nonexistence, and since if a tape-recording is actually a copy and not the same thing as the source of the recording, would not a resurrected person be a copy too? I don't remember the exact words I used, but that was the gist of it. I didn't get an answer that satisfied me; they assured me I would understand when I grow up.
• 

  nelly136

  ((((((anewme))))))))