Confession me reply to your message RE Richie

by Beep,Beep 84 Replies latest jw friends

  • Confession
    Confession
    I believe that any injustice can be corrected without resorting to theft, lying or any other form of dishonesty...

    Just as I thought, Beep. You are the consummate Guardian (of Myers-Briggs temperament science.) You are among those individuals who are preoccupied with following the rules, respecting authority and upholding the structures of society. Good for you. Without Guardians a lot of things wouldn't get done--and life would be much more chaotic than it is.

    If you steal once for a "good cause" what's to stop you from stealing when you will profit from it? Or lie when it serves your interests?

    Here you provide the "slippery slope" principle. You are convinced that the principles of honesty and integrity should be iron-clad--and any deviation from them will result in weaker-willed people breaking these principles left and right. Everything will go to heck in a handbasket.

    I can applaud your desire to adhere strictly to these things, but I believe that, when an organization is itself supressing the full truth about policies that have allowed pedophiles to continue hurting children, action needs to be taken. And if that action means grabbing a book out of their library and making its contents public, I am by no means "stooping to their level." "Stooping to their level" would involve protecting pedophiles myself.

    Yes, other action can be taken--and it has been and will continue to The problem is that--if the WTS is guilty of serious wrongdoing in this regard--it must be shown that it is part of their stated policy. If this policy is something in writing--then this writing MUST be produced. If they try to keep this book from the hands of all but those in their authority structure, how will the law get access to it unless someone decides to grab one up and give it to them?

    What's to stop me from stealing when I will profit from it? A mature conscience, Beep. Mine tells me...

    Stealing is wrong. But under extraordinary circumstances it may be necessary. After facing such circumstances, then you may go back to life's ordinary circumstances--in which stealing remains wrong.
  • Dismembered
    Dismembered

    Gary1914

    Unfortunately, your high moral view is not held by the Watchtower organization. They believe in lying and underhanded tactics in the name of protecting their religion. They believe in secret books and secret memos and secret meetings so that the brothers remain ignorant of what their true purpose is

    Excellent point Gary. Beep Beep ever hear of the SS77 forms? hmmmmmmm. I'll say it again, the "elder" arrangement needs to be disbanded. They are a bunch of arrogant pricks. They're as bad as any Taliban

    Dismembered

  • Mary
    Mary
    Beep Beep said: I have yet to come across a single VERIFIABLE of a cover up. Yes I have read all sorts of claims but not one verifiable.

    Well I hate to point out the obvious, but that's what makes a successful cover-up: when you can no longer verify it, because the evidence has been destroyed. DUUUUUH!!! Yes, I guess those 23,000 cases at Bethel that Barbara Anderson knew about were all just a figment of her imagination eh?

    Personal involvement. I have had a close relative molested by that child's father. The child was taken to the doctor who confirmed that the molestation had occurred. The medical evidence thus became the "second witness". The man was disfellowshipped BEFORE he ever reached the courthouse.No one from the kingdom hall attempted to interfer in any way. The local body of elders supported the mother the entire time. Now before someone yells "new light" this occurred more than twenty years ago.

    Good. Sounds like these elders had a conscience, but that doesn't mean that that's been the standard practice. Did you see all the JW victims on Dateline and 20/20? Hell there were two girls that were regular pioneers and they got disfellowshipped because they went to the police and reported that they had been molested by a brother in the Hall, because the elder body wouldn't do anything about it. You think Jehovah approves of men who try pulling this crap? Ever stop to think that maybe this was Jehovah's way of "dealing with it" seeing as the morons at Bethel were being neither faithful nor discreet???

    About stealing, maybe I'm a victim of my upbringing but I do not believe it is acceptable to steal even to feed your family. There are other, legal ways to do so. I don't accept that there is no other way.

    Ya right......obviously you've never been starving or watched your child starve. But golly gee, I'm sure that if you ever were in that situation, you'd rather die than steal a loaf of bread eh?

    I believe that any injustice can be corrected without resorting to theft, lying or any other form of dishonesty.

    Really? Then maybe you should tell that to the WTS. They've lied constantly over the years about doctrines, about why the brothers and sisters in Malawi were murdered......while they encouraged the brothers in Mexico to lie to the government about their status as a "culture" instead of a "religion", so they could own land and buildings.....they've stolen the lives of millions of Witnesses either through medical means, or by "discouraging" them to get an education or have any kind of a normal life over the decades. They encourage Witnesses to lie in court if it'll cover their sorry asses, but this is referred to as "theocratic warfare". Would you like me to go on?

    So please----don't try pointing down at anyone here from your high and mighty throne, when you need to take a much closer look at the history of the Organization and all the shit they've pulled, instead of banging your fists in self-righteous indignation over a frigging book.

  • DannyHaszard
    DannyHaszard
    If you steal once for a "good cause" what's to stop you from stealing when you will profit from it? Or lie when it serves your interests?

    Agree wholeheartedly,yes indeed the CENTRAL CORE doctrine of the Watchtower/Jehovah's Witnesses that Jesus Christ had his,advent,came to power,second coming,presence in the year 1914 was stolen from the second adventist aka millerites.

  • Mary
    Mary
    the CENTRAL CORE doctrine of the Watchtower/Jehovah's Witnesses that Jesus Christ had his,advent,came to power,second coming,presence in the year 1914 was stolen from the second adventist aka millerites.

    Ooooooh!! Excellent point Danny!!

  • DannyHaszard
    DannyHaszard

    Jehovah's Witnesses Millerite mutation right down to the very month. Always do a regression analysis just where did 1914 come from? Time sneered that it was a "Great Disappointment." Nevertheless, millennial expectations persisted, leading to Seventh-day Adventism and the Jehovah's Witnesses .. Read from this newspaper article: The problem with Millennialism Naples Daily News, FL In 19th-century America the preacher William Miller was persuaded that the Second Coming of Christ would take place on the night of Oct. 22, 1844. When Jesus failed to keep that date, newspapers of the time sneered that it was a "Great Disappointment." Nevertheless, millennial expectations persisted, leading to Seventh-day Adventism and the Jehovah's Witnesses."
    --------------
    There you have it folks backup confirmation that Jehovah's Witnesses are "mutated millerites" a spinoff of second adventist. LOOK and open your eyes!! Why even the "Armageddon will come in month of October" false prophecy time line comes from William Miller a civil war army captain. Growing up born a JW I have heard/read that Armaggedon will come in "October" at least a hundred times,(World War one started and Satan cast out in "October") There is nothing that made me gasp in horror of all WT/JW falsehoods more then this finding that it all came from the Millerite movement! Yes,the "great disappointment" of Oct 22 1844 has never falted... it lives on in the Seventh day Adventist (who admit it) AND the Jehovah's Witnesses who deny it Must see video clip http://www.dannyhaszard.com/cultvideos.htm
    The Millerites: Armageddon (History Channel) 4 min clip
    This is the highly credible HISTORY CHANNEL (Roger Mudd) not the "apostates" exposing Jehovah's Witnesses as a spin-off of the William Miller movement of 1844 Matthew 24:35- " Heaven and earth will pass away, but my words will never pass away. Growing up lifelong Jehovah's Witness from a devout family.This declaration by Jesus was applied to the Watchtower's1914 'generations' prophecy in talks and in WT written publications. MILLIONS of followers were heartened that no matter what,this 'prophecy' will come to pass. Ahhh,such utter blaspheme naughty,naughty,naughty

  • kid-A
    kid-A

    Typical infantile JW thinking.....everything is black and white, right or wrong, "with us" or "with the terrorists"....lol.....

    You will learn the hard way beep beep, that in life, as in morality, there are ALWAYS shades of grey and that often times the ends DO justify the means.

    Try to keep in mind who you are dealing with here....we are seasoned survivors of your watchtower corporation and we know every single bullshit tactic and 'trick' that a JW can

    possibly pull out of their hats.

  • DannyHaszard
    DannyHaszard

    http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/110696/1933303/post.ashx#1933303 "Beep Beep" ridicules me as a 'laughing stock"

    Know this,JW's have done such a poor job of expounding their 'gospel' that most of the general population think that they aren't even Christian.The few that are privy to the Watchtower belief system think the WT is a "laughing stock" over the 'invisible; 1914 Jesus

  • stevenyc
    stevenyc

    Beep, Beep said: 1. I have yet to come across a single VERIFIABLE of a cover up. Yes I have read all sorts of claims but not one verifiable

    http://www.silentlambs.org/Berryappealverdict.htm

    Hillsborough–southern judicial district

    No. 2003-779

    Holly berry & a.

    v.

    Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New york, Inc. & a.

    Argued: October 20, 2004

    Opinion Issued: July 15, 2005

    Gawryl & MacAllister, of Nashua (Jared O’Connor on the brief), and Marci A. Hamilton, of Washington Crossing, Pennsylvania, orally, for the plaintiffs.

    Devine, Millimet & Branch, P.A., of Manchester (Donald E. Gardner and Brian J.S. Cullen on the brief, and Mr. Gardner orally), and Robert C. James, of Patterson, New York, on the brief, for defendants Watchtower Bible & Tract Society of New York, Inc. and Wilton Congregation of Jehovah’s Witnesses.

    BRODERICK, C.J. The plaintiffs, Holly Berry and Heather Berry, appeal orders of the Superior Court (Groff, J.) dismissing their claims. We affirm.

    ........

    The Wilton Congregation was aware of the harm being perpetrated on the plaintiffs through repeated reports. Due to the number of reports over the years, it was also aware that the abuse was ongoing.

    The majority notes: "There is no allegation that the elders acted in any way other than by providing spiritual guidance and scriptural advice, at the request of the plaintiffs’ mother." The majority’s analysis of the special circumstances exception does not address the plaintiffs’ allegation that the elders of the Wilton Congregation instructed Poisson not to report the abuse to secular authorities. I find no meaningful difference, however, between the facts alleged in this case, and the facts of the special circumstances cases relied upon by the majority. See Remsburg, 149 N.H. at 154-55 (risk of criminal misconduct, including stalking and identity theft, sufficiently foreseeable, therefore special circumstances imposed duty on private investigator to exercise reasonable care in disclosing third party’s information to client); Walls, 137 N.H. at 659 (duty to protect tenants from criminal attack may arise when landlord has created or is responsible for a known defective condition that foreseeably enhanced risk of attack). The majority characterizes these cases as relying upon the element of control. I do not find this retrospective statement of the law persuasive.

    In this case, the elders of defendant Wilton Congregation not only created an opportunity for Paul Berry to continue abusing the plaintiffs precisely because of their inaction, but actively facilitated the continuing abuse by their instruction to Poisson not to act. Further, the elders instructed Poisson not to report the abuse in the presence of the abuser himself. It is not unreasonable to infer that Berry continued abusing the plaintiffs, his daughters, safe in the knowledge that Poisson was not going to report him to secular authorities.

    The elders of the Wilton Congregation were aware of Poisson’s understanding of the policy against seeking outside help. Yet, despite the numerous reports, made at different times to different elders of the Wilton Congregation, none of them advised her to seek help from secular authorities, and at least some of them instructed her not to seek such help, effectively allowing Paul Berry to continue his pattern of abuse. Because the harm done to the plaintiffs was foreseeable to the Wilton Congregation, and facilitated both by its action and inaction, the Wilton Congregation had a duty to protect the plaintiffs from it.

    The majority fears heading down a slippery slope where friends and relatives will face tort liability for giving bad advice. This is an unusual case, however, and I would decide it based upon its facts alone. The facts creating the duty in this case were the elders’ awareness of Poisson’s religious beliefs, the fact that her husband was the one abusing the children, the elders’ knowledge of the abuse over the years, their continued failure to counsel her to seek help, their specific instruction to her not to seek help when she relied upon their guidance and the fact that they did so in Berry’s presence. These special circumstances created an opportunity for Berry to continue abusing the plaintiffs.

    Children who are victims of physical and sexual abuse are limited in their ability to protect themselves, especially when their abuser is a parent. The legislature has recognized this fact, and has attached criminal liability to any person who fails to report suspected child abuse, no matter what their connection to the child, if any. See RSA 169-C:29. Recognizing a common law duty to protect children through counseling a parent to seek help, would accurately reflect our collective concern for the vulnerable class of child abuse victims.

    The trial court found that, to the extent a common law duty may have existed, the religious privilege barred the defendants from disclosing the abuse. See N.H. R. Ev. 505. The trial court concluded, therefore, that any allegations that the defendants breached their duty by failing to report or disclose the abuse could not stand. The majority does not address whether the defendants were barred from disclosing the abuse by the religious privilege, and I decline to address it as well because I find that Wilton Congregation’s duty could have been satisfied simply by counseling Poisson to report the abuse to secular authorities

  • stevenyc
    stevenyc

    Beep, Beep.

    You can also see that case here http://www.nh.gov/judiciary/supreme/opinions/2005/berry081.htm so you know its not those pesky apostates making stuff up.

    steve

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