MIND IN OVERLOAD

by Broken Hearted 22 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  jgnat

  They don't really know the scriptures or their own history very well. That's a sham. They rehearse how to SELL their beliefs. Dig below the rehearsal and there's...emptiness. Anonymously attend a mid-week Service meeting at a local Kingdom Hall and you'll see what I mean.

  The reason your JW guy wants to pass you off to an elder is because he hasn't thought these things through too deeply himself. My JW hubby does this to me every time he's stumped. A JW is afraid of thinking too deeply. If they do, they realize they've wasted MONTHS or YEARS on a sham. Such a discomforting thought causes cognitive dissonance, and most people will do backflips to avoid it.

  For reading the publications without the sales pitch, check out http://www.reexamine.org

  I do agree that this research requires you to fully re-examine your own beliefs. I had to do so - to understand myself - to understand my JW husband. Some sites I found helpful include:

  http://www.apologeticsindex.org/apologetics.html I re-discovered what Orthodoxy is and what it means.

  http://chi.gospelcom.net/ A great introduction to early Church history, without the WT bias.

  AND for every scripture offered by a JW, read the entire passage in context. Don't let the JW skip around the bible, stringing unrelated verses together like beads on a string. What was the author's intent in the passage?
• 

  Ingenuous

  {{{{{Broken Hearted}}}}}

  I feel like I am going in all kinds of directions and needing structure.

  I believe this is normal. I felt similarly when I first started taking an honest look at my beliefs, where they came from, on whose authority I was accepting them, and why I held them. By unlearning old beliefs, changing your way of thinking, and learning new facts, you are literally blazing new trails in your brain. It can be disconcerting when you've got to re-draw the map from scratch, but it is an excellent work-out for your faculties of reason.

  I was accused of looking for the negative, by being on this sight, I don't really think that is what I am doing just trying to get understanding of something I have never been exposed to and was raise to fear.

  Your motives make sense. If you are using facts and being honest about your feelings, the accusations leveled against you only make sense to those whose minds are closed and/or motivated by fear themselves.

  They do make you study and learn more about what they tell you that you believe, They know their scriputre and thier history.

  As touched-on by lovelylil, JWs give the appearance of being thorough and impartial researchers, but I didn't realize this was only an illusion until I left. Since I left and did research apart from JW literature, I have discovered how often Witnesses ignore and/or re-write history and take scripture out of context. The world, the people in it, and its history are very different from what I was taught they were as a JW. Using multiple JW sources as the background of one's research makes it seem one has done the "footwork", but, having been raised a JW and living as one for nearly the first 30 years of my life, I've discovered how the Org mediates reality. They limit and shape their audience's understanding and make it seem one has done their research because they advocate trusting that the Org has done all the research necessary and have done so honestly (honestly = the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth).

  He has suggested I call my local kingdom hall to get the answers maybe they could explain it better. Told him was not doing that, then I asked him if his elder father would be able to explain it a better way.

  While it is commendable to ask for help from someone when we can't do something on our own, think about what this statement means. It means that a major doctrine and practice in a group which is not understood well enough to be explained to someone else is still accepted as correct due to the commands of men. If such a teaching - which has a major and irreversible affect on one's life no matter what the ultimate outcome decided by the elders - cannot be adequately explained and supported by a believer, what does that say about who is inventing these teachings, how they are being enforced, and the state of mind those with authority in the Org wish to maintain in the rank and file?

  Guess I am looking for suggestions on how to not be negative on this research .

  Sometimes, this is not possible. When one encounters something truly negative, it would be dishonest to attempt to make it anything else. It would be a form of denial. On the other hand, it can help to see isolated experiences as anecdotal until enough similar experiences are gathered to reasonably suggest a pattern is emerging. While recognizing that many things others say can originate from hurt feelings, extracting the main issue conveyed in another's experience and evaluating it seperately from the attitude of the writer can help in determining the "rightness" or "wrongness" of the circumstances in question. It's also good to evaluate the reactions you receive during your search: When you present information to someone, is the information itself discussed, or are you attacked personally? Is the issue at hand given the focus or are "strawmen" (non-existent or irrelevant arguments) used to distract from the main point of the discussion? And - a personal opinion - gut feelings can often lead to an intuitive but accurate assessment of the "attitude" being promoted, whether during an actual discussion or while reading an argument.

  why does a JW when answering a question always have to use and anology to get their point across and not just answer the question at hand?

  When I was a JW, I and other Witnesses used this method when we knew a straight answer would be offensive or would close someone's mind to our argument. It is a way of avoiding 'letting your 'Yes' mean 'Yes' and your 'No', 'No'" because you 1) don't want to be tied down to a specific answer and 2) you want to manipulate your audience into seeing your side and need them to remain open to your perspective. Manipulation isn't always a bad thing - we do it every day. But when someone isn't aware of the manipulation and the techniques used are designed to circumvent independent or contradictory thought, one moves into the dangerous realm of thought reform.

  I know it's hard and exhausting, but keep at it. You will eventually become proficient at such critical examinations. Don't hesitate to just take a break once in a while, though. A period of shifted focus (onto something totally unrelated) can often help your mind process the material you've already covered and broaden your perspective.
• 

  parlay

  When I was an active JW, I thought I knew JW history. I was very dissapointed to find out

  I had not been told the whole history of JW's, only an edited flattering version.

  http://www.watchtower.cc/ gives access to older JW publications.

  Crisis of Conscious by Ray Franz (former member of JW leadership counsel) will reveal to you what they

  don't want you to know, the true inner workings of the JW org.
• 

  Kaput

  Broken Hearted --

  Lots of great advice so far. You're getting the benefit of many years of research all crammed into one day's worth of replies to your topic. Good to see you've begun "the journey". Take your time but just keep going.
• 

  Apostate Kate

  Broken Hearted you have been given some great replies here.

  As far as the Bible, trust yourself. If you believe in God, then pray and ask Him to teach you directly from the Bible. Get books like Bible dictionaries, commentaries by reputable scholars, like J Vernon Mgee, Wiersbe, there are many. I have one great study Bible by Thomas Nelson that gives some archeological coorelations to passages and cultural facts of the time.

  Sounds like you have been through quite a bit. If you do believe in God then pray and ask Him for help, healing, wisdom, discernment. Call on Jesus to clarify things. Tell Him how you feel, all of it. He already knows it, it is nice to hear it from us. Just like we want to hear from our children. I am sorry your daughter left. I hope you can heal that relationship.

  There are a lot of very smart people here, they seem to enjoy sharing their knowledge with everyone so bring them your questions and ponderings.

  {{{{{{{{{{Broken Hearted}}}}}}}}}}}

  1 Corinthians 1:2-3 unto the church of God which is at Corinth, even them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints, with all that call upon the name of our Lord Jesus Christ in every place, their Lord and ours: Grace to you and peace from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ.

  {JWs are not allowed to call out to Jesus}
• 

  Apostate Kate

  also I am so very sorry for what your poor daughter is going through. Do you want to share that with us? What has caused her lungs to fail? How old is she?
• 

  Kaput

  {JWs are not allowed to call out to Jesus}

  Hmmmm....sounds like the Masons.
• 

  Balsam

  Broken Hearted,

  The thing is the JW will say they believe in the bible but is not accurate. As others have said here they believe only what is offered to them in the Watchtower Publications as the gospel truth. In others words they depend on the Governing Body of head men to tell them the meaning of the biblical scriptures. And there in lies their greatest ignorance. And yes beware of the love bombing by the JW as they try to capture your willing spirit in following their religion. It is extremely high control and you are subject to the rules of the Governing Body if you ever get baptized.

  Balsam
• 

  AK - Jeff

  Many fine suggestions here. I would recommend reading 'In Search of Christian Freedom' by Ramond Franz.

  Ray was a lifelong JW who became part of the ruling body of Jehovah's Witnesses called the Governing Body. He was pushed out due to doctrinal variance and conscience. He can shed both a witness perspective and the perspective of reason that may help you get a balanced understanding of this cult.

  Many here, including myself, have spent nearly as many years as he did in the organization. But virtually no one has the perspective he had from the top of the tower itself. It can be purchased through his site or any online book outlet.

  www.commentarypress.com

  Good luck to you.

  Jeff
• 

  Broken Hearted

  Let me just say thank you so much, I have become addicted to this sight, and anything religious lately, There was a write up in todays local paper about my religion and I was walking by saw the article and had to stop and read.

  also I am so very sorry for what your poor daughter is going through. Do you want to share that with us? What has caused her lungs to fail? How old is she?

  My Daughter is 18 and has Primary Pulmonary Hypertension and is waiting a double lung transplant. Pulmonary Hypertension is an abnormally high blood pressure in the lungs. The small vessels that supply blood to the lungs constrict, making it harder for the blood to get to the lungs, thus causing the heart to work harder and enlarging. The Pulmoanry blood pressure is only to be 25% of what your normal blood pressure is. So her blood pressure runs about 100/50 this means the pressures from the heart to the lungs should be 25. Well the day she entered the hospital (July 31 2002 she was 14 at the time) Her pulmonary blood pressure was 175. They did not expect her to live through the night. ( they did not tell me this until they released her from the hospital 10 months later) She is a walking Miracle. At first they thought she was going to need both lungs and a heart because of her heart being so enlarged, Well they have determined that when she gets new lungs her heart will go back to normal size and her valves will stop leaking. They have also determined that she was born with a lung disease they have never seen before. They have had some well know Pulmonologist (sp?) look at her records and the lungs. They have no idea what could have caused her lungs to do what they have. I saw the pics of her lungs and all i can say is i though of snow white when she gets lost in the woods and she gets tangled on the roots of those trees, her lungs look like tangled roots to me and then there are areas the just end and look like fungus growing on them. With the Lung transplant she is given a life expectanacy to live 1 to 5 years after the transplant, or be longer could not live through the surgery. Only those that have had to deal with a sick child especially a mother that has carried that child for 9 months could even begin to know the pain i face daily. I go to bed at night and Say thank you God for giving me my daughter another day. I wake ups wondering if today is the say she gets transplant or worse.

  She will graduate from high school on the 22 of May, I am so proud of her, she was able to keep up a 3.6 grad point average, deal with her illness and also deal with a very nasty divorce and custody battle. There are many things from this battle, and the fact that I am over protective that has led her to live with her dad the day she turned 18.

  Some people may sit in judgement, and have their opinions that I should not even be dating let alone falling in love with a guy who is JW, You can only do so much for your children, They are center of my life. But until you have lived the HELL i have for the last 4 years with her illnesses and the divorce and the rejection , plus living miracliously on donations from family, friends and complete strangers and churches, because they put her in hospital 2 1/2 hours from where we live, and I had to take a year leave of absence, Was already seperated from husband, so no income, at all, I was able to keep 2 apartments one in Gainesville florida and one in Lakeland, pay the health insurance, make my car payment, buy her food because she would not eat the hospital food, plus feed my self and then, the miracle of a christmas card with 750.00 in it from a church that said this is not to pay bills with but to get your 5 children chrismtas presents. No on can sit in judgement of me. Even my ex can not completely understand, We all deal with things differently. ( he is in denial most of the time that she is as ill as she is.)

  All I can say is that the Grace of God took care of me. I have been back to work since august of 2003, and I struggle so much more financially now than i did that full year. Rent keeps going up, Car blew up so had to get a new ( used one) and payments went up, then electricy and gas. In the custody battle we got shared custody and you can read a little about this in another post i did http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/6/112177/1959379/post.ashx#1959379 but neither parent pays child support and I get one week, he gets the next. I have taken on tutoring after school in the afternoons to just be able to feed my children when I have them every other week. So when I say comments like I know God sent this man in my life, I really do know he did. I may not understand the full aspects or to what extent he is to stay in my life.

  Tina