607

by Zico 290 Replies latest jw friends

KW13

Good question!
http://www.thebritishmuseum.ac.uk/compass/index.html
Click where it says Continue into Compass. Search 586, 587, 597, 609, Babylonian e.t.c
For a bit of fun search 607
That is the British Musuem OFFICIAL SITE.
MuadDib

"Inspiration" shouldn't even enter into the equation. When one side of an argument, instead of presenting sober consideration of facts and evidence, instead resorts to ouright teleology by dismissing rational analysis as spiritually deficient, there is no honest debate being carried on. Your personal belief in the Bible does not make it a valid source of historical information. Sorry. The Bible has no authority on this matter whatsoever, irrespective of who's interpreting the text.
What utter lunacy. Just what you'd expect from a fundie.
BlackSwan of Memphis

..............not again.................
hmmm...
Y'know scholar I have Never read that book by Carl. Never. Don't need to. I have never examined the dates that critically. Don't need to.
Russell, like his adventists fore fathers, was predicting the end of the world. Didn't happen. They didn't do it once, they did it again and again.
Scholar maybe you should just rely on the words of Jesus to understand the truth, it might wipe the murk off of your eyes.
Matthew 24/25. There is no bible evidence that one would have 'secret' knowledge of Christ's whereabouts. You would not need a person with "special" revelations to show you.
Not getting into it with you. You're a smart guy obviously, reminds me more of what the bible said.
AuldSoul
Yet even coming from this angle, Scholar IMO fails to make it a case that hinges on biblical authority. Instead he presents a case that hinges on the interpretive authority of the WTS.

Spot on, M.J.! I am very curious to see whether scholar will explain the issues raised by crazies. My suspicion is that he will not directly address what Jeremiah 25:12 said would occur at the END of the seventy years, but will again try and deflect to some date arguments he is more comfortable with.
Even according to the Watchtower Society, Babylon's fall in 539 BC marked the end of the 70 years of domination.
Isaiah's Prophecy Light for All Mankind—Volume I (pp. 253-254)
“She Must Return to Her Hire”
21 Isaiah goes on to prophesy: “It must occur in that day that Tyre must be forgotten seventy years, the same as the days of one king.” (Isaiah 23:15a) Following the destruction of the mainland city by the Babylonians, the island-city of Tyre will “be forgotten.” True to the prophecy, for the duration of “one king”—the Babylonian Empire—the island-city of Tyre will not be an important financial power. Jehovah, through Jeremiah, includes Tyre among the nations that will be singled out to drink the wine of His rage. He says: “These nations will have to serve the king of Babylon seventy years.” (Jeremiah 25:8-17, 22, 27) True, the island-city of Tyre is not subject to Babylon for a full 70 years, since the Babylonian Empire falls in 539 B.C.E. Evidently, the 70 years represents the period of Babylonia’s greatest domination—when the Babylonian royal dynasty boasts of having lifted its throne even above “the stars of God.” (Isaiah 14:13) Different nations come under that domination at different times. But at the end of 70 years, that domination will crumble. What will then happen to Tyre?
22 Isaiah continues: “At the end of seventy years it will happen to Tyre as in the song of a prostitute: ‘Take a harp, go around the city, O forgotten prostitute. Do your best at playing on the strings; make your songs many, in order that you may be remembered.’ And it must occur at the end of seventy years that Jehovah will turn his attention to Tyre, and she must return to her hire and commit prostitution with all the kingdoms of the earth upon the surface of the ground.”—Isaiah 23:15b-17.
23 Following the fall of Babylon in 539 B.C.E., Phoenicia becomes a satrapy of the Medo-Persian Empire. The Persian monarch, Cyrus the Great, is a tolerant ruler. Under this new rulership, Tyre will resume her former activity and try hard to regain recognition as a world commercial center—just as a prostitute who has been forgotten and has lost her clientele seeks to attract new clients by going around the city, playing her harp and singing her songs. Will Tyre succeed? Yes, Jehovah will grant her success. In time, the island-city will become so prosperous that toward the end of the sixth century B.C.E., the prophet Zechariah will say: “Tyre proceeded to build a rampart for herself, and to pile up silver like dust and gold like the mire of the streets.”—Zechariah 9:3.
Questions:
21. In what way is Tyre “forgotten,” and for how long?
22, 23. What will happen to Tyre when she comes out from under Babylonian domination?
The 70 years being referred to is plainly the same as the one recorded at Jeremiah 25:8-17, 22, 27. The 70 years ended in 539 BC, as crazies showed by another line of reasoning, so...scholar, if the 70 years ended in 539 BC (even according to celebrated WT scholars) ... when ... did ... the ... 70 ... years ... begin?
539 BC - 70 years = 609 BC, not 607 BC.
I am very much looking forward to scholar's explanation of the issues raised in crazies' posts.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul
scholar

crazies
Jeremiah 25:12 pertains to Babylon and this section begins the oracle to the nations so that in the course of history Babylon received her judgement and faded into obscurity along with the other nations. It experience a fall in 539 but that is not what verse 12 refers to but rather her complete desolation. A new king of Babylon namely Cyrus released the captives in 537 thus ending the seventy years. There is no way that 539 can be used to end the seventy years because as claimed by the Jonsson hypothesis.
scholar JW
scholar

starting over
A Christian's post has already been answered by me seceral times in the course of my posting history and has been dealt with in past WT publications. The answer is very simple as to why we choose to partially use Neo Babylonian chronology in establishing a biblical chronoilogy. I t comes down to methodology and the fact that secular chronology does not account for the seventy years therefore rendering its data useless for such purposes. Neo-Babylonian chronology is open to interpretation and is suitable for the museum only. There is a shortfall of some twenty years between the sacred biblical chronology and the demonic secular chronology.
scholar JW
sir82

the demonic secular chronology.

Those bast#$%s!
It's not enough that they have to go and bury those dinosaur bones to make'em look 100 million years old, when the Bible clearly states that dinosaurs were created less than 13,000 years ago...now they have to go and forge all those Babylonian business documents, to make it look like there's a 20 year gap.
Too much time on their hands, I guess.
MuadDib

"I t comes down to methodology and the fact that secular chronology does not account for the seventy years therefore rendering its data useless for such purposes."
What you mean to say, no doubt, is that it comes down to the fact that your methodology hinges entirely on your personal belief system rather than on a sober investigation of what the historical evidence actually reveals. Your idiotic raving about "demonic secular chronology" confirms it: you are no scholar at all, in any sense of the word, but simply another fundamentalist trying (and failing miserably) to give some legitimate facade to his own prejudices. Fortunately, those of us who are scholars, and who cultivate a rational, analytical, and HONEST assessment of reality, can easily see through your ignorant lunacy.
"Scholar" indeed. You don't merit the name you've given yourself. As a real scholar, I demand you change it immediately to something more fitting. "Bullshitter" is probably still up for grabs.
KW13

but jeremiah 25:12 says the 70 years end when the babylonian king was brought to account...that was 539...
Lady Liberty

This is the very issue that really got me to think. I spent a whole year trying to PROVE 607. But after a year I realized EVERYTHING contradicted 607. And that the Organization is the ONLY ones that teach it as fact. But most importantly 607 contradicts the Bible. No doubt after your post you will get a few Elders PMing you. Encouraging you to put aside your doubts. I did too, after I posted my initial story on the whole 607 isssue and what happened to us. But.. to me I had to find out the truth no matter what it was! If you are sincere, then I would highly encourage you to pray to Jehovah for strength, and holy spirit, and to help you find out what the truth is on this matter. He WILL help you! His word says to worship him with spirit and truth. Besides, if what the organization teaches is truely truth, then a thourough examination will only be faith strengthening. How many times have we gone out in the ministry asking ones to make a thourough examination of their faith? We should be able to have the freedom to do the same. There is so much data proving that 607 cannot be factual. But the first place I would like to share with you is the scriptures. For me, if all the secular data that supports 586/587 contradicted the scriptures, I would still be unsure as to if 607 was accurate or not. Because for me the Bible is our ultimate authority. These scriptures helped me see that secular data WAS in perfect harmony with the Bible. And that it was the Watchtower teaching of 607 ALONE that contradicted the Bible. Please read these scriptures:
1. Daniel 1:1-3 (This is the begining of the captives being taken to Babylon. These are words from Daniel, as he was one of the ones taken, as was Shadrack, Meshack, and Abendigo, the royal offspring, and the utensils from the house of Jehovah. )
2. Daniel 1:5 (Here it shows Daniel as well as others had to be nourished for 3 years and at the END of the three years he could then stand before the King of Babylon. Remember the Bible stories book where Daniel and the others refused the delicacies of the King because they were not proper for the Jews to eat?)
3. Daniel 2:1 (Notive this is Nebuchadnezzars 2nd year-but really his third, if you count his "0" year).
4. Jeremiah 52:12 (Here it tells us what reignal year it was of King Nebuchadnezzars when Jerusalem was destroyed. It says it was his nineteenth reignal year. So if that is true, which we know it is, because the Bible says so. Then how is it Daniel, the royal offspring and the utensils of Jehovah all in Babylon some 20 years before when the Society teaches? However, the archeological/secular/lunar data all prove they were captive around 605-607. But that the city was not destroyed until the 70 years for Babylon were completed. And that is in the year 586/587.)
5. Jeremiah 25:11 ( This scripture shows the seventy years were seventy years of "servitude" to Babylon. And when they were fullfilled, THEN Jehovah would call them to account. So the 70 years would end, and then Babylon would be called into account by Jehovah. And thats exactly what happened. Remember when Cyrus came in the city, by diverting the waters around the city and the gate were left open, and they just walked in? That was the very night the 70 years were up.)
6. Daniel 5:24-30 (Notice Gods words, "God has numbered your days of your kingdom and has FINISHED it." That very night the King was killed. Thus the end of the 70 years. The Society teaches that the 70 years did not start until Jerusalem was destroyed. And they did not end until 2 years AFTER they were let go by Cyrus. Yet as I have shown the scriptures do not support this thinking.)
7. Jeremiah 25:17-26 ( These scriptures show that Jehovahs anger was not just against Jerusalem. But against ALL the Nations. They would have to SERVE the King of Babylon 70 years. Now, they had a choice. They could go along with Jehovahs punishment, stay in their own land and their current King could remain, BUT as a vassal King. Subject to Babylon. Yet Jerusalem refused! So.. Babylon went after them and took captives. But they didn't come in and take captives all at once. They took thousands at a time. And even when they burned Jerusalem down, they still left ones behind and put a Governor over them. They could remain in their homeland, but had to pay tribute to the King of Babylon.
8. Jeremiah 40:7 (This scripture shows Gedaliah commissioned as Governer.)
I hope thes scriptures help you see that scripturally, 607 doesn't fit. I really encourage you to take the time to read the entire account, in all the scriptures. Don't take my or ANYONES word. But do as you seem to be doing, and really check these things out before making any decision. Jehovah will help you see the truth if indeed that is what you are truely seeking. Please let me know if you need anything else. As I stated before, I have done extensive research on this topic, and can help direct you to information that took months to accumulate. I am also going to post this message under your topic, as it may help others. But I didn't want you to overlook the information here. I will be sending you other data I have found If thats ok.
Sincerely,
Lady Liberty

607

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