When did JW,s stop considering the nation of Israel Gods chosen people?

by moomanchu 22 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  lovelylil

  looking glass,

  You are correct but that was not the belief in Russell's day. He believed that the Jews were to return to their homeland and that Gods kingdom when set up on the earth will be set up in Jeruselem. He was a Zionist. He believed that the patriarchs of old, Abraham, Jacob, Isaac, etc. would have a part in the kingdom and that the laws would come forth from Zion. In his book the Divine Plan of the Ages, he brings this out. He, Unlike Witnesses today, felt all the OT prophecies about the Jews would come to fulfillment. If Russell was alive today and was a zionist, he would be disfellowshipped from his own organization.

  It was Rutherford who changed everything Russell believed in. Russell also did not believe he had only truth. He set up the WT to be a publishing company only and never said it was God's channel of communication. Now, I dont believe in some things Russell did, like the pyramids, 1874 date, invisible prescense of Christ, but he did have some things correct. More than I can say for the WT today. And actually, he never was a Jehovahs Witness or founder of them. Rutherford was the founder of the JWs. Russell died in early 1900s. By the 1930s and the name change to Jehovahs Witnesses, ALL of Russells teachings were done away with. It is a totally different org. There are still today many modern day descendants of Russell called Bible Students. They each differ somewhat in beliefs. Some are strict Russellites, some are not. But they are nothing like Jehovah's Witnesses and the WT organization of today.
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  Spectrum

  I think it was either when Christ died on the cross or the fall of Jerusalem.
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  Ingenuous

  Z:

  Definately not the 1900s, because Russell was a Zionist.

  Ha???????????

  See specific chapters in Russell's Divine Plan of the Ages (paging down to the line containing the page number [A294] ). Also, from his book and The Battle of Armageddon:
  

  The peculiar circumstance narrated of our Lord's curse upon a fig tree which bore no fruit, and which withered away directly ( Matt. 21:19,20 ) inclines us to believe that the fig tree in this prophecy may be understood to signify the Jewish nation. If so, it is being signally fulfilled; for not only are thousands of Israelites returning to Palestine, but the Zionist movement, as all know, has now assumed such proportions as to justify Conventions of representatives from all parts of the world to meet year by year to put in practical shape the proposal for the reorganization of a Jewish state in Palestine. These buds will thrive, but will bear no perfect fruit before October 1914--the full end of "Gentile Times."

  Not until the full end of Gentile Times (October, A.D. 1914) should we expect the earthly phase of God's Kingdom; for in giving a lease of dominion to the Gentiles until that date God made no mistake and his plans alter not. The earthly phase of the Kingdom of God when set up will be Israelitish; for such is God's engagement or covenant with Abraham and his natural seed. Even the chief favor, the spiritual Kingdom, was offered first to fleshly Israel, and would have been given to them if they had been ready at heart to receive it on the conditions attached to it-- to suffer with Christ and afterward to be glorified with him. ( Rom. 8:17 ) Israel indeed desired and sought the best God had to give; but "Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for: but the election [the "little flock" selected from both Jews and Gentiles] hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded --not forever, but until the election of the spiritual seed, the Kingdom proper, is completed. Rom. 9:31-33; 11:7,23,25-32

  While Israelites in various stages of unbelief will be gathered back to Palestine under divine favor, according to promise, yet none shall be in any degree reckoned as a part, or even as supporters of, or associated with the earthly phase of the Kingdom, except as they shall first recognize Christ Jesus as the Son of God, the only Redeemer and Deliverer for Israel and the world.
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  looking_glass

  Was this the same thing when Taze thought that the prophets of old (Abram, Moses, etc.,) were suppose to return?
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  Ingenuous

  looking_glass,

  Yes. He discusses it in The Battle of Armageddon - page-down to the line containing the page number [D625] - he discusses it after that paragraph.
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  EAGLE-1

  I may be wrong but I sensed they were anti-jewish period or just jealous.Correct me if I am wrong.I said something about 1948 and the oberseer fuhrer crawled my ass
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  looking_glass

  Yeah, I get all this stuff confused. I remember having to read Then is Finished the Mystery and it never made any sense. I would get things confused with what JWs use to believe to what they currently believe. It was like Soup of the Day but for religious people.
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  lovelylil

  When I said Russell was a Zionist - that was the term they gave to those who believed the Jews would return to Mount Zion in Jeruselem in fulfillement of Bible Prophecy. Russell believed this until his death in, I believe 1916.

  Rutherford was the Jew hater, not Russell. By the way, Russell died before the book the Finished Mystery was completed. And Rutherford completed it himself. Many of the original bible students broke away from the group after Rutherford took over. And they do not believe Russell wrote the Finished Mystery. Also, the name Jehovah's Witnesses was coined in the 1930s by Rutherford, many believe to distinguish his group from the other bible students that Russell started. So, technically Russell did not found the JWs organization.

  The bible student movement is still alive today. Some totally worship Russell and stick closely to all his books including the false predictions of 1874, 1914. But some are more balanced and use the bible more. Some do not use the books, studies in scriptures at all. I have many bible student friends. Hope this helps.
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  moomanchu

  I thought I remembered that the JW,s believed that when the nation of Israel was being set up after WWII it was the start of Gods kingdom on earth, but then because of the way the Jewish nation acted with regard to the military and other things JW,s realized it wasn't?????????
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  moggy lover

  Right upto 1925 the WTS was advocating the return of the fleshly Jews to Palestine. It was in that year that Rutherford piblished his "Comfort For the Jews" book, incidently, after the "Harp of God" his second book.

  Evidently, by 1929 and the publication of the book "Prophecy" the Judge, meaning the WTS, had reversed himself, and "Spiritual Israel" was being talked about.

  Cheers