by FreedomFrog 31 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Bible inspired route: as was stated, this one is going nowhere.
That may actually be a good thing. Since my mom is all about "Proof" too, she will start to see that there isn't "Proof"... just "faith".
Ok, since this is my thread... lol... I guess I'm intitled to change the "subject" then, right? Can I have as much inforation on "Lies, hypocrisy (pedophile situation, 607, Mexico, etc.)" Or at least where I can get the info. Thanks
there is also an online book out there showing the 125 places in the NT where the JWs have inserted the word Jehovah where there is no OT reference, and it just SHOULD NOT BE! 237 times in the NWT minus 112 that have a Hebrew Script quote = 125.
they have only inserted it to back up THEIR OWN interpretation changing the word for word TRANSLATION. Used with the Diaglott - this deceptive practice is suspect.
quite a bit of reading go right to appendiz B
http://www.irr.org/English-JW/Tetragram-Christian-Scriptures.html
there is also an online book out there showing the 125 places in the NT where the JWs have inserted the word Jehovah where there is no OT reference, and it just SHOULD NOT BE! 237 times in the NWT minus 112 that have a Hebrew Script quote = 125.
Ok, this is good. And you're right, there is a lot of reading. But I'm printing this out and I'm going to work on how to handle it. If I can prove to my mother that it's only by faith, it might get her to see things a bit different, cause she's one to have things "proven" to her. If not, no worries because I'm cool with all of this anyway. And besides, I'll learn more by doing this research. Man, I feel like a college girl.
Can you help me show reasons the bible may NOT be written by God?
Keep it simple and put the responsibility on them to prove that it was written by god. Perhaps you could ask a simple question like; "Why don't the miracles prove the Bible to be unreliable?"
Here are a few pointers I gave to Shining One some months ago, needless to say he didn't address any of them.
The physical impossibility of a man walking on water.
The chemical impossibility of turning water into wine.
The biological impossibility of three day old corpses being brought back to life.
The mathematical impossibility of the parts being greater than the whole (loaves & fishes). Let's look at this one.
(Matthew 14:19-21) . . . he commanded the crowds to recline on the grass and took the five loaves and two fishes, and, looking up to heaven, he said a blessing and, after breaking the loaves, he distributed them to the disciples, the disciples in turn to the crowds. 20So all ate and were satisfied, and they took up the surplus of fragments, twelve baskets full. 21 Yet those eating were about five thousand men, besides women and young children.
That is a mathematical impossibility. It is either an elaborate and complex hoax, which I doubt, or it never happened and is simply a lie which is what I strongly suspect.
Good Luck
Here are a few pointers I gave to Shining One some months ago, needless to say he didn't address any of them.The physical impossibility of a man walking on water.
The chemical impossibility of turning water into wine.
The biological impossibility of three day old corpses being brought back to life.
The mathematical impossibility of the parts being greater than the whole (loaves & fishes). Let's look at this one.
I can understand why he wouldn't have addressed them. If whoever he was talking to was asked these questions, the response from my parents would be "It's possible because with God all things are possible". So, I'm not sure if that would work here either. You and I know that it just isn't possible, but now try convincing someone that believe that a special "miracle" happened which makes it possible.
Welcome back, FF! Hope you're doing well.
Well, these things have started gnawing at me about the Bible, and I mean ANY of the translations...
How many manuscripts were lost, damaged, or translated wrong or to suit somebody's opinion, down through the ages? Are there books missing? Were there rogues who wrote the verses up the way they liked them, or even deleted passages they didn't want to include? How confident can we be that the final product we see today really resembles God's original words? There's just too much margin for error to make every word a life and death matter, as in blood, birthdays, military service, etc.
Just my two cents, ask her how she can be sure there was no tampering over thousands of years!
It's easy to set up an impossible conundrum for a strict Bible believer. Just show that Jesus was a false prophet:
Matthew 24:1,2 (NIV) says:
Jesus left the temple and was walking away when his disciples came up to him to call his attention to its buildings. "Do you see all these things?" he asked. "I tell you the truth, not one stone here will be left on another; every one will be thrown down."
If Jesus were a true prophet, then every detail of his prophecy here would have been fulfilled. But they were not. Today, Jews in Jerusalem consider the so-called Wailing Wall a holy place of prayer. What is this wall? Leftover stones from the temple.
AlanF
Oooh, here's another goody, along the same vein as my post above...
In the NWT appendix, as well as the "All Scripture Inspired" book, it is freely admitted that the name "Jehovah" does not appear in any--ANY--existing manuscript of the NT. But the JWs put it in there 237 times, with various reasonings as presented in those 2 sources.
But, given the JW assertion that knowing and repeating the divine name Jehovah is of utmost importance, how was it that the Bible was passed on for generation after generation, nearly 2000 years, without that divine name in its rightful place in those 237 verses?
And if the knowledge and use of that divine name is of such overwhelming and crucial importance, yet Jehovah was unable / unwilling to see to it that the name was preserved in any manuscript, well, once again, how can we have confidence in anything else (which must be of lesser importance than that divine name) which appears there?
Why the Bible at all?
Look, if there really is a personal Creator, who's all love and justice, why would he use a book written by ancient people
we can't confirm, in dead languages most of us can't read, and recopied and recopied by people we don't know?
The biggest objection to the Bible is that a personal Creator shouldn't need it! He should speak to us directly and tell us what he wants
of us personally, without any ambiguity and without threatening to punish us because we misunderstood some ancient book.
I do believe that the Bible is a remarkable book, with superior intelligence behind much of it - but none of that changes the simple fact
that God has a moral responsibility to speak to us directly, as to what he wants.
metatron
Freedom frog
Don't get into general discussions about who wrote the bible . This is old hat and no side will win on this one.
Rather prepare a list of WTS revisions.(ON PAPER) You could start with the thread "question about the 1260 and 1335 days". Bondie and jwfacts are the sholars in that department.
Now, what you want to to is get the latest WTS interpretation of scripture on paper ALONG witht the revisions. Be specific and to the point. The objective here is to make the elder look like a dummo because he won't be able to explain the revisions. As we all know when a jdub is corneerd and they can't explian something they will always refer to the "NEW LIGHT" that comes from the WTS.
Tell your elder study conductor to not use the "NEW LIGHT" excuse and to explain these revisions some other way. Get the elder to see that these revisions prove that the older doctrines are all false and hence so are the new ones
When you say the word "false" it will make the elder cringe because that is one word they don't want to hear TRUST ME ON THAT
