The "Sovereignty" Doctrine is Stupid

by metatron 28 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • M.J.
    M.J.

    This idea is very similar to the dualistic teachings of Zoroastrianism. That there is not one God over all, as assumed by monotheism, but that the universe is split between the God of Good and the God of Evil. Scholars have found historically that dualism tends to spring out of an attempt at resolving the difficulties encountered by strict monotheism in explaining evil. Further, it is widely believed that the concept was introduced to some extent into Judaism during the Persian period.

    In actuality, the JW version of the story admits that Jehovah is NOT sovereign over the world, putting the world under the domain of the "evil god", Satan.

    Zoroastrianism also in an apocalyptic fashion explains the final triumph of the good god over the evil.

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    This is what first got me thinking that the idea of God is stupid, whilst I was still in Bethel. Then I realised that it is not the idea of God that is the crazy , but rather that this is a crazy WTS doctrine.

  • lovelylil
    lovelylil

    Since this thread starts off by saying that any thought of Gods sovereignty is stupid.....I pass.

  • M.J.
    M.J.

    I don't take it that way, lovelylil. I'm pretty sure its talking about the JW "sovereignty" doctrine. Not necessarily the notion that God is sovereign.

    The JW "sovereignty" doctrine actually strips God of true sovereignty.

  • sinis
    sinis

    So if Uni.Sov. is NOT the issue then can anyone explain the present, past, and possible same future (less than desirable)? I would think some sort of God would care or "pop" in from time to time to see how things are going?

  • Honesty
    Honesty
    The JW "sovereignty" doctrine actually strips God of true sovereignty

    That's how the WATCHTOWERâ„¢ god keeps 6 million JW's enslaved.

  • Amazing1914
    Amazing1914

    Metatron,

    Interesting and good viewpoint! I like your conclusion that the Society really reduces God to a limited being on a human level. This is exactly what makes most of their teachings absurd. The few good teachings they have are basic common sense, and do not need to be taught.

    Jim Whitney

  • lovelylil
    lovelylil

    good points about how the WT teaches God's Soverienty.

  • Scully
    Scully

    And then you have Chris de Burgh's song "Spanish Train", where the Devil is the one who cheats at poker (playing for peoples' souls) and gets away with it because God is just an insipid moron who stays true to his ultimate benevolence and will not stoop to the same level as Satan.

    There's a Spanish train that runs between
    Quadalquivir and old Seville,
    And at dead of night the whistle blows,
    and people hear she's running still...

    And then they hush their children back to sleep,
    Lock the doors, upstairs they creep,
    For it is said that the souls of the dead
    Fill that train ten thousand deep!!

    Well a railwayman lay dying with his people by his side,
    His family were crying, knelt in prayer before he died,
    But above his bed just a-waiting for the dead,
    Was the Devil with a twinkle in his eye,
    "Well God's not around and look what I've found,
    this one's mine!!"

    Just then the Lord himself appeared in a blinding flash of light,
    And shouted at the devil, "Get thee hence to endless night!!"
    But the Devil just grinned and said "I may have sinned,
    But there's no need to push me around,
    I got him first so you can do your worst,
    He's going underground!!"

    "But I think I'll give you one more chance"
    said the Devil with a smile,
    "So throw away that stupid lance,
    It's really not your style",
    Joker is the name, Poker is the game,
    we'll play right here on this bed,
    And then we'll bet for the biggest stakes yet,
    the souls of the dead!!"

    And I said "Look out, Lord, he's going to win,
    The sun is down and the night is riding in,
    That train is dead on time, many souls are on the line,
    Oh Lord, he's going to win!.."

    Well the railwayman he cut the cards
    and he dealt them each a hand of five
    And for the Lord he was praying hard
    or that train he'd have to drive...
    Well the Devil he had three aces and a king,
    and the Lord, he was running for a straight,
    he had the queen and the knave and the nine and ten of spades,
    All he needed was the eight...

    And then the Lord he called for one more card,
    but he drew the diamond eight,
    And the Devil said to the son of God,
    "I believe you've got it straight,
    So deal me one for the time has come
    to see who'll be the king of this place,
    But as he spoke, from beneath his cloak,
    he slipped another ace...

    Ten thousand souls was the opening bid,
    and it soon went up to fifty-nine,
    but the Lord didn't see what the Devil did,
    and he said "that suits me fine",
    "I'll raise you high to hundred and five,
    and forever put an end to your sins",
    But the Devil let out a mighty shout, "My hand wins!!"

    And I said "Lord, oh Lord, you let him win,
    The sun is down and the night is riding in,
    That train is dead on time, many souls are on the line,
    Oh Lord, don't let him win..."

    Well that Spanish train still runs between,
    Quadalquivir and old Seville,
    And at dead of night the whistle blows,
    And people fear she's running still...
    And far away in some recess
    The Lord and the Devil are now playing chess,
    The Devil still cheats and wins more souls,
    And as for the Lord, well, he's just doing his best...

    And I said "Lord, oh Lord, you've got to win,
    The Sun is down and the night is riding in,
    That train is still on time, Oh my soul is on the line,
    Oh Lord, you've got to win..."

  • peacefulpete
    peacefulpete

    The Seventh Day Adventist founder Ellen White actually endorsed (created?) the doctrine of Universal Sovereignty as an explanation for the existance of suffering. The WTS borrowed the idea from them. just for fun take a read of this link:Transformed By the Good News

    If you took the header away and dropped the Sabbath part it could be a WT article.

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