by Cabin in the woods 30 Replies latest social relationships
Pardon me if I am wrong but didn't Moses ditch his first wife Miriam because she did some kind of false worship thing?
Also - just hypothetical: If a childless JW couple both mutually wanted a divorce, would it be possible to claim they had never consumated the deed and just back out of the non-marriage like a Catholic annulment?
Then there was also the issue of non-watchtower legal practices...this has changed over the years.
This is just amazing. As I read along I think that I remember something to the effect that if a man does not care for the spiritual needs of his family then that is cause for divorce also. I am not certain when they slipped that one in but probably one of their later rules.
My concern now has obviously changed regarding that foolish organization. I no longer care about their rules but to really understand what the scriptures say esp. because so many things are not correctly translated in the NWT . It just makes it confusing. After much thought I have decided that I do believe in a personal creator and until I find something that I might hold more trust in I think that I will try to do things appropriate to the scriptures. That is why I ask the above question. Do all bibles back up that viewpoint? Or did the dubs twist the scriptures here as well.
If I am sounding confusing I do apologize.
cab.
Pardon me if I am wrong but didn't Moses ditch his first wife Miriam because she did some kind of false worship thing?
Miriam was Moses older sister and Moses was married to Zipporah, the Midianite daughter of Jethro, the man whose flocks Moses tended for 40 years before returning to Egypt.
Actually, the Israelites were allowed to have multiple wives and to divorce on grounds other than adultery (actually adulteresses were put to death so that automatically cleared the way for remarriage).
(Deuteronomy 24:1) 24
"In case a man takes a woman and does make her his possession as a wife, it must also occur that if she should find no favor in his eyes because he has found something indecent on her part, he must also write out a certificate of divorce for her and put it in her hand and dismiss her from his house.
But see guys, that is what seems odd. Because we know that her ex (current JW) wanted at the time to get remarried, we believe he was dating a JW (although he kept it on the down low, it was pretty well known amongst his peeps). Her ex had started a writing campaign to the WTBTS, the hall they went to as a married couple and the hall her parents go to. Unfortunately, the ex had gotten info from mutual friends (great friends if you ask me) that this chick was dating someone and was engaged to be married. The ex then wrote everyone. She was not even going to the hall any more. She had been inactive for about 5 years.
The elders in the hall where her card was got in touch w/ her at her work. Her ex had given them all the info he had gotten from the "mutual friend". That was when she contacted her dad who went to the elders to find out what was going on. Her dad was the one that got the scoop because the elders were vague with her.
Then when she did agree to talk with the two elders over the phone, they told her that if she did not agree to the JC they were going to DF her in absentia. That put her parents into the pic, because her parents said that they would not go to the wedding if she was DF'd. So she felt she was b/w a rock and a hard place. But her dad told her to hold off the JC meeting until right before the wedding because if she got DF'd that the announcement would not happen until the following Theo Min School and they could still go to the wedding because it would be prior to the announcement. Now do you see why her dad was not well liked by the fellow elders, not a "good" JW in their eyes because he was always thinking of the loop holes.
What we did not know was her dad was doing all kinds of research. According to him he located info in the elder's book that referenced if a JW files for divorce, even though they are not the wronged party, that it breaks the marriage bond. Her dad then called the head of the Klan and told him what he found. My GF's dad called her a couple of days before the JC mtg and told her what he found and said that the mtg would just be a formality and that she should be alright. And that was exactly what it was. She got in, she got out ... no DF'ing.
But as a side note, nothing was ever, ever, ever done to her loser ex who is still an active JW and currently remarried. Don't get me wrong, my GF probably did luck out with this one. But the whole story behind it is really disgusting. And the way it was handled or mishandled was maddening. Nothing was ever done to her ex.
That is why it would be a shock to me that it was just a lucky break and not a little know fact that is just not followed. Think of how much of an uproar the hall would be in to find out that there is info in the elder's book that allows for a divorcing and remarriage w/o DF'ing if the circumstances are similar to these. Think about how many women who have lived their lives in limbo because their ex ran off and they were not able to prove the "adultrey" claim. Talk about people storming the castle gates!
Well, then we MUST get our hands on that book as people have to know about this aspect.
Does anyone have or know where we can locate one of those???
c.
Thanks, Blondie on the Miriam thing- see how you can get behind on this stuff when you don't attend meetings and belong to car clubs and apostate websites?
But let me try again! Wasn't there something about one of David's wives laughing at him because he danced a sort of holy funky chicken and she got sent away over it?
Seriously, I am starting to sense that there are some deep personal issues going underneath this thread and we should at least try to give some sensible answers on the right vs wrong issues of this divorce thing rather than the WT legalistic ones.
Respectfully, James
james, that was Michal. And as I pointed out, under the Law code, husbands could dismiss their wives for reasons that did not include adultery. Under the Law, adultery was a capital crime punishable by death (unless you were the king like David and his adulterous honey, Bathsheba).
Also, consider this point:
***
w74 11/1 p. 671 Questions from Readers ***. The innocent mate can choose to forgive the wrong act of the adulterous mate. In such a case the marriage bonds remain intact. So, then, the determining factor is, in all cases, the decision of the innocent mate either to forgive or to refuse to forgive the adulterous mate.
Man was created in God's image. God created woman, not in God's image, but because man saw that he was without a mate an lonely. Thus, woman is man's companion. As such, a companion is to compliment the man.Also, because God inspired the bible, it was written by men who were created in god's image. Thus, it would be written in a male perspective.
Take it for what it is worth .... CRAP!
Your right...its a shyte explanation and one that is so obviously written from a male perspective...perhaps I should have said that I have yet to find a JW that can give me a good explanation as to why Big J would create such an inbalance.
DB74
Well, here is a viewpoint inspired by Blondie and her reference to Judaic Divorce...etc.
We had a JC case where the wife has an office affair with her boss. She admits it to husband in moment of guilt and he drives to town and cleans the boss''s clock. (you have to understand that this was Okla. City during the Urban Cowboy thing - ) Wife gets a DF for the affair, husband gets a reproof for the fist fight. BTW - that boss was a jerk and needed his ass kicked. However, it was well known around town that husband had been fooling around with an exwife he had before he got baptised as a witness. He was just smart enough to not admit it.
Now, they both want a divorce - and IMHO needed one and should have had one.
Committee says no; they had had sex after the affair was known. After that found out that they couldn't get along. (DUHH--) Unless she REDID the affair, all bets were off. So, the sordid little mess went on for many miserable years, numerous JC sessions, and an unwanted kid or two. Final result was numerous (>5 each) affairs, reconciliations, DFs, etc, and only after about 10 more years of agony do they both end up the way they wanted - her married to a nice man who is good to her kids, and him single to play around like he was probably doing in the first place.
Now, my point is: Did the JC really have a biblical basis to deny them divorce on the question of (sex == forgiveness). I cannot see how they are at all the same thing. I think that the family court in OKC would have made a far better decision: Divorce because of irreconciliable differences, settlement of assets, and get on with life. Yeah, mistakes were made by the couple, but the biggest was by our committee. I am ashamed to say that I got outvoted and eventually forced into the decision to DF her in the first place, but such was the mindwarp at the time.
Second point: Did the new testament really set aside the husband can divorce law that Blondie pointed up? OR, was this just advice to husbands not to do this willy-nilly? Room for interpretation here perhaps...even Catholic law can get around this when they want to bad enough.
James
In the pay attention to the flock book, the only reference to divorce is this:
18. PERSONAL DECISIONS
: Individuals in the congregations may ask the opinion of the Legal Department or Desk on what to do in matters involving citizenship, neutrality, marriage, divorce, employment, etc. However, if the person does not know what to do from his own knowledge of the Bible, it is wiser not to take the esponsibility from him by telling him what to do. The Legal Department or Desk should limit its work to legal issues affecting the branch’s interests rather than personal requests for legal advice or assistance.steve
