John Chapter 1

by mavie 41 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  Oroborus21

  I will write this again, because I just love making this point....

  If anyone wants to believe that God the Son, Jesus, or any part of Almighty God, sat down beside the road during one of his many travels, or while camping out near the lake, and took a big smelly stinking dump....then you go ahead and try to picture that. I am certain that it happened now and then.

  I am also certain that Jesus farted, burped, wiped his ass, pissed against the tree, ate fish and bread, had a cup of wine now and again, got an erection and even had seminal emissions.

  As for me, I can't picture God or any part of a Godhead in any such pedestrian way.

  While Jesus was human and taking his dump, God was in his spiritual realm sitting on his spiritual throne in all his majesty and Glory.

  -Eduardo
• 

  stillajwexelder

  am also certain that Jesus farted, burped, wiped his ass, pissed against the tree, ate fish and bread, had a cup of wine now and again, got an erection and even had seminal emissions. As for me, I can't picture God or any part of a Godhead in any such pedestrian way. While Jesus was human and taking his dump, God was in his spiritual realm sitting on his spiritual throne in all his majesty and Glory.

  AMEN to that Eduardo
• 

  jw

  First of all, the scriptures are not a literal translation

  John Chapter 1 Post 63 of 64 since 29-Mar-06 28 y 6 m 3 d Lao People's Democratic Republic I am wondering how those who believe Jesus is the Almighty Lord God reconcile the following passages in Chapter 1. John 1:1 - ..."the Word was God." John 1:14 - "And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth. " John 1:18 - "No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him." If one believes that the Word, or Jesus, was God, then how can the apparent conflict found in verses 14 and 18 be resolved? If the Word became flesh and dwelt among us then he certainly was seen by many people on the Earth. However, verse 18 states that no one has seen God. Read the correct scriptures below! Greek/English Interlinear (tr) NT) John 1:14 kai <2532> {AND} o <3588> {THE} logoV <3056> {WORD} sarx <4561> {FLESH} egeneto <1096> (5633) {BECAME,} kai <2532> {AND} eskhnwsen <4637> (5656) {TABERNACLED} en <1722> {AMONG} hmin <2254> {US,} kai <2532> {(AND} eqeasameqa <2300> (5662) thn <3588> {WE DISCERNED} doxan <1391> autou <846> {HIS GLORY,} doxan <1391> {A GLORY} wV <5613> {AS} monogenouV <3439> {OF AN ONLY BEGOTTEN} para <3844> {WITH} patroV <3962> {A FATHER,} plhrhV <4134> {FULL} caritoV <5485> {OF GRACE} kai <2532> {AND} alhqeiaV <225> {TRUTH.} ----------------------------------------- Greek/English Interlinear (tr) NT) John 1:1 | en <1722> {IN [THE]} arch <746> {BEGINNING} hn <2258> (5713) {WAS} o <3588> {THE} logoV <3056> {WORD,} kai <2532> {AND} o <3588> {THE} logoV <3056> {WORD} hn <2258> (5713) {WAS} proV <4314> ton <3588> {WITH} qeon <2316> {GOD,} kai <2532> {AND} qeoV <2316> {GOD} hn <2258> (5713) {WAS} o <3588> {THE} logoV <3056> {WORD.} --------------------------------------------------------- Greek/English Interlinear (tr) NT) John 1:18 qeon <2316> {GOD} oudeiV <3762> {NO ONE} ewraken <3708> (5758) {HAS SEEN} pwpote <4455> {AT ANY TIME;} o <3588> {THE} monogenhV <3439> {ONLY BEGOTTEN} uioV <5207> {SON,} o <3588> {WHO} wn <5607> (5752) {IS} eiV <1519> {IN} ton <3588> {THE} kolpon <2859> {BOSOM} tou <3588> {OF THE} patroV <3962> {FATHER,} ekeinoV <1565> {HE} exhghsato <1834> (5662) {DECLARED [HIM].}

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• 

  mavie

  I'm not trying to start a war here or anything, but I looked at John 5:18 a little closer tonight.

  In the preceding verses Jesus answers the Jews who were persecuting him for working on the Sabbath by saying "My Father works until now, and I work" (MKJV). Then the Jews became incensed at him because he was not only breaking the Sabbath, but was calling God his Father, making himself equal to God.

  I think it is important to note that Jesus did not call himself equal to God here, the Jews did. I'm not aware of any passage where Jesus outrightly says, I am God.

  In verse 19 Jesus stated that he only does what he observes the Father doing.

  Futher, at Philipians 2:6, Paul writes that Christians should have the same attitude as Jesus...to be like God? No, rather to not consider ourselves to ever be equal to God.

  Please do not get offended or up in arms about this. I am simply trying to further my understanding.
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  Carmel

  God is pure perfection, and creatures are but imperfections. For God to descend into the conditions of existence would be the greatest of imperfections; on the contrary, His manifestation, His appearance, His rising are like the reflection of the sun in a clear, pure, polished mirror. All the creatures are evident signs of God, like the earthly beings upon all of which the rays of the sun shine. But upon the plains, the mountains, the trees and fruits, only a portion of the light shines, through which they become visible, and are reared, and attain to the object of their existence, while the Perfect Man is in the condition of a clear mirror in which the Sun of Reality becomes visible and manifest with all its qualities and perfections. So the Reality of Christ was a clear and polished mirror of the greatest purity and fineness. The Sun of Reality, the Essence of Divinity, reflected itself in this mirror and manifested its light and heat in it; but from the exaltation of its holiness, and the heaven of its sanctity, the Sun did not descend to dwell and abide in the mirror. No, it continues to subsist in its exaltation and sublimity, while appearing and becoming manifest in the mirror in beauty and perfection.
  

  Now if we say that we have seen the Sun in two mirrors -- one the Christ and one the Holy Spirit -- that is to say, that we have seen three Suns, one in heaven and the two others on the earth, we speak truly. And if we say that there is one Sun, and it is pure singleness, and has no partner and equal, we again speak truly.

  The epitome of the discourse is that the Reality of Christ was a clear mirror, and the Sun of Reality -- that is to say, the Essence of Oneness, with its infinite perfections and attributes -- became visible in the mirror. The meaning is not that the Sun, which is the Essence of the Divinity, became divided and multiplied -- for the Sun is one -- but it appeared in the mirror. This is why Christ said, "The Father is in the Son," meaning that the Sun is visible and manifest in this mirror.

  (Abdu'l-Baha, Some Answered Questions, p. 113)
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  AuldSoul

  mavie,

  Will we be one with Jesus and God, who are themselves one? And BTW, the JW unity of thought doesn't wash with those verses.

  The same attitude as Christ would be the same attitude as God, would it not? We must be holy as he is holy, must we not?

  Christ did not say I have a way and a truth and a life, did he?

  Before I could discuss this with you further, I would want to know whether, in your opinion, Jesus was trying to restore us to life, or restore a relationship.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
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  free2beme

  All myth! and one day man will know that WORD is TRUE even in Christianity! Some day soon, I hope.
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  mavie

  AuldSoul, I would say restore to life. We were born imperfect, as Carmel pointed out all creatures are imperfect. Paul identified the source of this imperfection in Romans where he speaks of Adamic sin.

  I still believe God's right to rule was challenged in Genesis. The hope to be saved from our imperfect state, and show our willingness to live under God's rule, rests on our faith and belief in the perfect ransom of Jesus.
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  AuldSoul

  Okay, mavie. I think as you keep digging you might be led to some different conclusions, not that your thoughts are incorrect, I just think you'll find that the priority of importance will shift as you study more.

  I have a suggestion, if you are no longer one of Jehovah's Witnesses (official religion): Starting with Romans, read each of the books through to Jude as a letter written to an established Christian congregation or to a mature convert (in the case of Philemon, Titus, Timothy, etc.). In other words, before starting to read the book, think about to whom it was written. That means none of what you read applies to newly interested ones or those who do not know. All of it applies to mature converts.

  To me, Jesus seems to have done something far more important than restore a hope of life to us, although he did that, too. If you keep digging I am sure you will find it.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
• 

  peacefulpete

  To follow Leolaia comment about how Philo granted a quasi-entity status to the Logos (Word), here's a quote from a Jerusalem Targum demonstrating the same . (Tg.Yer.I):

  "And Moses made a bronze serpant and put it on an eleavated place; and it would come to pass that if the serpant bit a man, and he would look on the bronze serpant, and fix his heart on the Name of the Word of YHWH, he would live."