jw, a thread for you and I...

by AuldSoul 41 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul
    I believe some humans will never die at all and other humans will be witness to that in our time.

    Good morning, jw. I just rolled out of bed and haven't had my coffee yet, but there is one thing that leaps out at me here. I will try to address it more fully after my brain kicks in.

    It has to do with "will be witness to that in our time." I don't want to sidetrack the discussion in general though. I am still looking for the ways in which your explanation of the Bible differs from the explanation of the Governing Body. So far, it seems clickety-clack right down their track.

    Let me know when we get to the part where there is a divergence from the main rail. I'll finish my coffee and come back to this thread in about a half-hour or so. I saw on another thread where someone thought I was going to demolish you, I hope you know that is not my intent. I am enjoying getting to know more about your personal beliefs and the basis for them.

    Respectfully,
    AuldSoul

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul

    Okay, we still haven't got to the part where your dogma diverges from the dogma of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, so I will go ahead and ask: Can you please explain where your beliefs differ from those published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, and what Scriptures led to your changed understanding?

    Respectfully,
    AuldSoul

  • Hellrider
    Hellrider

    I don`t mean to intrude, but JW:

    "Milions now living will never die"

    Thats what the Watchtower was preaching in prior to their false prophecy about 1925

    Bull crap, that has nothing to do with the watchtower.

    JW, you don`t believe there was a prophecy about 1925? Good for you that you found this forum, we can inform you about a lot of things:

    Therefore we may confidently expect that 1925 will mark the return of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and the faithful prophets of old...."
    Millions now Living Will Never Die pg. 89, 90

    We have no doubt whatever in regard to the chronology relating to the dates of 1874, 1914, 1918, and 1925. It was on this line of reckoning that the dates 1874, 1914, and 1918 were located; and the Lord has placed the stamp of his seal upon 1914 and 1918 beyond any possibility of erasure. What further evidence do we need?
    Using this same measuring line.... it is an easy matter to locate 1925, probably in the fall, for the beginning of the antitypical jubilee. There can be no more question about 1925 than there was about 1914.
    Watchtower May 15, 1922
    "We understand that the jubilee type began to count in 1575 B.C.; and the 3,500 year period embracing the type must end in 1925.. It follows, then, that the year 1925 will mark the beginning of the restoration of all things lost by Adam's disobedience." {WT Nov 1 1922 346}
    "Have we more reason, or as much, to believe the kingdom will be established in 1925 than Noah had to believe that there would be a flood? .. Our thought is, that 1925 is definitely settled by the Scriptures, marking the end of the typical jubilees. Just exactly what will happen at that time no one can tell to a certainty; but we expect such a climax in the affairs of the world that the people will begin to realize the presence of the Lord and his kingdom power.. As to Noah, the Christian now has much more upon which to base his faith than Noah had (so far as the Scriptures reveal) upon which to base his faith in a coming deluge." {WT Mar 1 1923 106}

    And if you don`t believe this, then you should know that the WTBTS admits to it (well, kind of), but of course, they try to rewrite a bit of the history as to what actually happened, and lay the responsibility on the rank and file:

    1925 was a sad year for many brothers. Some of them were stumbled; their hopes were dashed. They had hoped to see some of the 'ancient worthies' [men of old like Abraham] resurrected. Instead of its being considered a 'probability,' they read into it that it was a 'certainty,' and some prepared for their own loved ones with expectancy of their resurrection..."
    1975 Yearbook pg.146

    While in reality, the whole 1925-expectations were directed straight out of the Watchtower itself! Wake up, Jw!

  • luna2
    luna2

    Very interesting stuff...although, I kept hearing the song "Just the Two of Us" playing in my head. I was good, though, and waited before butting in to post that.

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul

    I'm not sure if jw is still with us...but, just in case, bttt.

  • helppls
    helppls

    Well everyone...what's up with jw? Methinks he/she's gone, don't you? Last post was as of 5/5/06 408; it's now 5/7/2006 1204. Maybe re-arming???? Can't believe he/she's giving up so easily. But then again, I remember this being typical of witnesses I've known. They fiercely go for mind-control of the weak and the defenseless... but when they find themselves outfought, they are not shy about running away at lightning speed. Oh, I forgot...jw is supposedly not a "Jehovah's Witness"!

  • What-A-Coincidence
    What-A-Coincidence

    JWD vs JW

    JWD (1,001wins 0 losses)

    JW/apologist and company (0-1001)

    another day at the office.

  • jw
    jw
    1925 was a sad year for many brothers. Some of them were stumbled; their hopes were dashed. They had hoped to see some of the 'ancient worthies' [men of old like Abraham] resurrected. Instead of its being considered a 'probability,' they read into it that it was a 'certainty,' and some prepared for their own loved ones with expectancy of their resurrection..."

    1975 Yearbook pg.146

    What scriptures comfirm that?

  • AuldSoul
    AuldSoul

    jw,

    The phrase "Millions Now Living Will Never Die" was a marketing phrase invented by and used by J.F. Rutherford to market his chronology for the date 1925. In that year, according to his publications, the "Ancient Worthies" would be resurrected and walk among us, and the blessings of the New Order would be poured out in the form of miraculous healings, and such. Also in that year, Armageddon would pave the way for the earth to be restored.

    There was no basis in Scripture, although Rutherford repeatedly claimed that the date was "proven," "indisputable," "God's date and not our own" and many other affirmative statements. He made these claims in print.

    I am still unsure what your divergence from the Governing Body dogma is, but I was surprised you took issue with this point. In the publication produced by J.F. Rutherford bearing the same title we find the following quotes:

    We therefore propose to prove in this argument that the social order of things, the second world, legally ended in 1914, and since that time has been and is passing away; that the new order of things is coming in to take its place; that within a definite period of time the old order will be completely eradicated and the new order in full sway; and that these things shall take place within the time of the present generation and that therefore there are millions of people now living on earth who will see them take place, to whom everlasting life will be offered and who, if they accept it upon the terms offered and obey those terms, will never die. (from page 12)
    Other Scriptures show that there were to be seventy jubilees kept. (Jeremiah 25:11; 2 Chronicles 36:17-21) A simple calculation of these jubilees brings us to this important fact: Seventy jubilees of fifty years each would be a total of 3500 years. That period of time beginning 1575 before A. D. 1 of necessity would end in the fall of the year 1925, at which time the type ends and the great antitype must begin. What, then, should we expect to take place? In the type there must be a full restoration; therefore the great antitype must mark the beginning of restoration of all things. The chief thing to be restored is the human race to life; and since other Scriptures definitely fix the fact that there will be a resurrection of Abraham, Isaac, Jacob and other faithful ones of old, and that these will have the first favor, we may expect 1925 to witness the return of these faithful men of Israel from the condition of death, being resurrected and fully restored to perfect humanity and made the visible, legal representatives of the new order of things on earth. (from page 88)
    As we have heretofore stated, the great jubilee cycle is due to begin in 1925. At that time the earthly phase of the kingdom shall be recognized. (from page 89)

    The 1975 Yearbook didn't mention that the Judge told the Bible Students what they SHOULD expect in 1925, and that they were only exercising faith in the thing heard. So certain was this return that a mansion named Beth Sarim was purchased by the Society for the Ancient Worthies to live in when they got resurrected in 1925.

    The phrase "Millions Now Living Will Never Die" was an outright lie when it was first taught as truth. I hope you are not in favor of the WTS position that it is the student's fault if they heed the voice of those who claim to be teachers of God's Word. There is quite a lot of Scriptural disagreement with that viewpoint. (Matthew 23)

    But, I would like to get back to our previous discussion now, if possible.

    Respectfully,
    AuldSoul

  • jw
    jw


    Can you please explain where your beliefs differ from those published by the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, ?

    Some of my beliefs may be the same if it is in the bible.

    and what Scriptures led to your changed understanding?

    Greek/English Interlinear (tr) NT) Titus 1:1 | pauloV <3972> {PAUL} douloV <1401> {BONDMAN} qeou <2316> {OF GOD,} apostoloV <652> de <1161> {AND APOSTLE} ihsou <2424> {OF JESUS} cristou <5547> {CHRIST} kata <2596> {ACCORDING TO} pistin <4102> {[THE] FAITH} eklektwn <1588> {ELECT} qeou <2316> {OF GOD'S} kai <2532> {AND} epignwsin <1922> {KNOWLEDGE} alhqeiaV <225> {OF [THE] TRUTH} thV <3588> {WHICH [IS]} kat <2596> {ACCORDING TO} eusebeian <2150> {PIETY;} Greek/English Interlinear (tr) NT) Titus 1:2 ep <1909> {IN [THE]} elpidi <1680> {HOPE} zwhV <2222> {OF LIFE} aiwniou <166> {ETERNAL,} hn <3739> {WHICH} ephggeilato <1861> (5662) {PROMISED} o <3588> {THE} ayeudhV <893> {WHO CANNOT LIE} qeoV <2316> {GOD} pro <4253> {BEFORE} cronwn <5550> aiwniwn <166> {THE AGES OF TIME,} ----- 20 touto <5124> {THIS} prwton <4412> {FIRST} ginwskonteV <1097> (5723) {KNOWING,} oti <3754> {THAT} pasa <3956> {ANY} profhteia <4394> {PROPHECY} grafhV <1124> {OF SCRIPTURE} idiaV <2398> {OF ITS OWN} epilusewV <1955> {INTERPRETATION} ou <3756> ginetai <1096> (5736) {IS NOT,} 21 ou <3756> gar <1063> {FOR NOT} qelhmati <2307> {BY [THE] WILL} anqrwpou <444> {OF MAN} hnecqh <5342> (5681) {WAS BROUGHT} pote <4218> {AT ANY TIME} profhteia <4394> {PROPHECY,} all <235> {BUT} upo <5259> {BY [THE]} pneumatoV <4151> {SPIRIT} agiou <40> {HOLY} feromenoi <5342> (5746) {BEING BORNE,} elalhsan <2980> (5656) {SPOKE} oi <3588> {THE} agioi <40> {HOLY} qeou <2316> {OF GOD} anqrwpoi <444> {MEN.}

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