Comments You Will Not Hear at the 5-7-06 WT Study

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    Comments You Will Not Hear at the 5-7-06 WT Study (April 1, 2006 issue, pages 21-25) (BAPTISM) Review comments will be in redWT material from today's WT will be in black
    Quotes from other sources will be in quotes boxesw = Watchtower
    g = Awake
    jv = Proclaimers book

    www.biblegateway.com/cgi-bin/bible (various Bible translations online)
    www.reexamine.org (WT publications online)
    www.silentlambs.org (child abuse)
    www.ajwrb.org (blood issue)
    http://www.randytv.com/secret/unitednations.htm (United Nations issue)

    `GO AND MAKE DISCIPLES, BAPTIZING THEM'

    'Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them...[in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit,], teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you."-MATTHEW 28:19, 20.

    Opening Comments

    Snippets, ellipses, are ways that the WTS reshapes a scripture to emphasize what it wants the reader to believe and leave out what it feels is unnecessary. Why does the WTS leave out ".in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit" from Matthew 28:19,20 above?

    Later in this article the WTS quotes the baptismal questions (used since 1985) asked at the end of their baptismal talk. What questions were early Christians asked before baptism? What scripture are they in?

    1) On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will?

    2) Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization?

    Notice how in the second question the holy spirit is replaced with "God's spirit-directed organization." Also notice they don't say anything about the WTS but it is the only organization they could be talking about.

    The WTS teaches there was a spirit-directed organization made up of the first century Christrians...then why did Jesus say "holy spirit" at Matthew 28 not "spirit-directed organization"?

    What were the pre-1985 questions and why were they changed? Which ones did you answer when you were baptized (1966 version for me).

    1973 May 1 page 280 Watchtower/Baptizing Follows Discipling

    (1) Have you repented of your sins and turned around, recognizing yourself before Jehovah God as a condemned sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ?

    (2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit?

    1970 May 15 p.309 Watchtower/Your Conscience Toward Jehovah

    (1) Have you recognized yourself as a sinner and needing salvation from Jehovah God? And have you acknowledged that this salvation proceeds from him and through his ransomer, Christ Jesus?

    (2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for redemption have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to Jehovah God, to do his will henceforth as that will is revealed to you through Christ Jesus and through God's Word as his holy spirit makes it plain?

    1966 August 1 p.465 Watchtower/Baptism Shows Faith

    (1) Have you recognized yourself before Jehovah God as a sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him, the Father, through his Son Jesus Christ?

    (2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightening power of the holy spirit?
    http://www.freeminds.org/doctrine/bapquestions.htm

    http://www.freeminds.org/doctrine/baptism.htm

    Note how different the second vow is from the earlier versions. The Society has managed to get newer members to, in effect, join a worldly club from which their membership can be terminated at any time by the Society (disfellowshipping) while at the same time convincing these newcomers that they have only dedicated themselves to their Creator. Can any actions be more devious?
    When a person becomes a JW, he or she is not told about the legal ramifications of joining the club. If the person decides to quit and says, "Hey, I dedicated myself to God and not to an organization," the Society may write a letter saying something along these lines:
    `From the date of your baptism and your joining the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses, you professed the Christian faith, agreed to adhere to the doctrine of Jehovah's Witnesses and agreed to submit to the rules and procedures of the ecclesiastical government of Jehovah's Witnesses.'
    Note the legalistic phrase "ecclesiastical government." The WT Society never applies this to itself in any literature for public consumption. Instead it uses euphemistic phrases like "theocracy" to lull the sensibilities of the rank and file.
    The change in baptismal vows protects the Society from legal challenges but is obviously completely un-Christian. The insidious thing is that, when challenged, the Society uses the legal ploy that it is a voluntary association, like a club, but then claims that a person has repudiated the entire Christian faith if he leaves the club.

    PICTURES THIS WEEK

    Page 21

    Israelites agreeing saying "we are willing to do" all that God has spoken. Where are the women and children in this picture? Doesn't the WTS teach that they dragged them to this event?

    (Deuteronomy 31:12) 12 Congregate the people, the men and the women and the little ones and your alien resident who is within your gates, in order that they may listen and in order that they may learn, as they must fear Jehovah YOUR God and take care to carry out all the words of this law.

    *** w04 10/1 p. 32 More Than a Game ***

    Jehovah wants children to have a share in true worship. He told Moses to include "the little ones" when the Law was read. (Deuteronomy 31:12)

    Page 22

    Baptismal candidates: All but one are people under 25.............

    Page 23

    Young woman with hands clasped in front of her with eyes close, praying

    Page 25

    Two white men, one older, one younger, demonstrating their dedication in the only way the WTS feels is important, in the door to door placing of WTS literature.

    START OF ARTICLE

    Q1) What decision did the nation of Israel make at the foot of Mount Sinai?

    1) Some 3,500 years ago, a whole nation made a vow to God. Assembled at the foot of Mount Sinai, the Israelites declared publicly: "All that Jehovah has spoken we are willing to do." From that moment on, Israel became a people dedicated to God, his "special property." (Exodus 19:5, 8; 24:3) They looked forward to receiving his protection and living generation after generation in a land "flowing with milk and honey." -Leviticus 20:24.

    To discuss the direction of Jesus at Matthew 28:19,20, the WTS selects an OT example....hmmm.

    "All that Jehovah has spoken we are willing to do."

    Translation: All that the WTS, the Society, the "slave, the GB, etc., has spoken is that same as if God had said it. Rever to Matthew 24:45-47.

    Q2) What relationship with God can people today enjoy?

    2) As the psalmist Asaph acknowledged, however, the Israelites "did not keep the covenant of God, and in his law they refused to walk." (Psalm 78:10) They failed to keep the vow that their forefathers had made to Jehovah. Eventually, the nation lost that unique relationship with God. (Ecclesiastes 5:4; Matthew 23:37, 38) God, therefore, "turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name." (Acts 15:14) And in these last days, he is gathering together "a great crowd, which no man [is] able to number, out of all nations and tribes and peoples and tongues," who joyfully acknowledge: "Salvation we owe to our God, who is seated on the throne, and to the Lamb."-Revelation 7:9, 10.

    Relationship with God--Where's Jesus?

    Another OT reference--Asaph--Israelites

    At Acts 15:14 was James speaking about the "great crowd" (JWs without a heavenly calling) or Gentile Christians? Wasn't he relating how Peter baptized the Gentile Cornelius and his family as spirit-anointed Christians?

    (Acts 15:14) Sym´e·on has related thoroughly how God for the first time turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name.

    By connecting these 2 scriptures the WTS clouds the issue that the 2 groups of Christians were both anointed, physical Jews and physical Gentiles.

    Do they know the real application of this scripture?

    *** w01 3/1 p. 9 What Is the Spiritual Paradise? ***

    Speaking of Gentiles who became Christians, the disciple James said: "God . . . turned his attention to the nations to take out of them a people for his name." (Acts 15:14)

    Q3) What steps must one take to enjoy a personal relationship with God?

    3) To be among those who enjoy that precious relationship with God, one must make a dedication to Jehovah and symbolize it publicly by water baptism. This is in obedience to Jesus' direct command to his disciples: "Go therefore and make disciples of people of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the holy spirit, teaching them to observe all the things I have commanded you." (Matthew 28:19, 20) The Israelites listened to a reading of "the book of the covenant." (Exodus 24:3, 7, 8) Thus, they understood their obligations toward Jehovah. Likewise today, an accurate knowledge of God's will as found in his Word, the Bible, is essential before one takes the step of baptism.

    Relationship with God--Where's Jesus?

    This triad of names occurs only at Matthew 28:19,20 in reference to baptism. Elsewhere, it is in the "name of Jesus."

    (Acts 2:38) 38 Peter [said] to them: "Repent, and let each one of YOU be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for forgiveness of YOUR sins, and YOU will receive the free gift of the holy spirit.
    (Acts 8:11-12) . . .quite a while by his magical arts. 12 But when they believed Philip, who was declaring the good news of the kingdom of God and of the name of Jesus Christ, they proceeded to be baptized, both men and women.
    (Acts 10:48) 48 With that he commanded them to be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. . . .
    (Acts 19:5) 5 On hearing this, they got baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

    Again they drag in an OT scripture to be able to link "obligations toward Jehovah" to the Christian life.

    Accurate knowledge of God's will as found in his Word, the Bible

    Only as interpreted through the WTS organization

    *** w81 2/15 p. 19 Do We Need Help to Understand the Bible? ***

    We all need help to understand the Bible, and we cannot find the Scriptural guidance we need outside the "faithful and discreet slave" organization.

    Box on page 22: THE TWO BAPTISMAL QUESTIONS (see Opening Comments)

    On the basis of the sacrifice of Jesus Christ, have you repented of your sins and dedicated yourself to Jehovah to do his will? Do you understand that your dedication and baptism identify you as one of Jehovah's Witnesses in association with God's spirit-directed organization?(End Box)

    Q4) What must one do to qualify for baptism? (Include the box above.)

    4) Clearly, Jesus intended for his disciples to have a solid foundation for their faith before they would get baptized. He instructed his followers not only to go and make disciples but also to teach them `to observe all the things he had commanded.' (Matthew 7:24, 25; Ephesians 3:17-19) Therefore, those who qualify for baptism have usually studied the Bible for months or even a year or two, so that their decision is neither hasty nor illinformed. At the baptism itself, the candidates answer yes to two key questions. Since Jesus emphasized that `our Yes should mean Yes, our No, No,' it will be helpful for all of us to review carefully the significance of these two baptismal questions.-Matthew 5:37.

    Clearly--WTS buzzword meaning they will make an application that is not "clearly" in the Bible

    Those who qualify (qualified by the elders) for baptism (as Christians or JWs) have usually studied the Bible (WT publications) for months or even a year or two (6 months and no progress then dropped)

    *** w85 6/1 p. 30 Subjecting Ourselves to Jehovah by Dedication ***

    Before reaching this point of baptism, all candidates have carefully reviewed with congregation elders the Bible's principal doctrines and guidelines for Christian conduct to make sure they really qualify for baptism.

    *** w02 4/1 p. 13 Why Be Baptized? ***

    Before anyone can become even an unbaptized preacher of the good news, Christian elders make sure that he understands basic Bible teachings, lives in harmony with them, and gives an affirmative response to a question of this kind, "Do you really want to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses?"
    With few exceptions, when individuals are having a meaningful share in the Kingdom-preaching work and express a desire to be baptized, Christian elders hold discussions with them to make sure that they are believers who have made a dedication to Jehovah and who meet divine requirements for baptism. (Acts 4:4; 18:8) Personal responses to over 100 questions on Bible teachings help the elders to determine whether those responding meet Scriptural requirements for immersion. Some do not qualify and therefore are not accepted for Christian baptism.

    SIX MONTH STUDIES

    *** w68 11/1 p. 668 What Did You Get Out of Your "Good News" Assembly? ***

    The "surprise" included more than the new book. It also involved a six-month Bible-study program! Because of the way the new book involves the student at every turn, it will doubtless make him want to take some action by the time he has completed it, which should be in about six months. No more are such studies to run on year after year without the student's acting upon the knowledge he gains!

    *** w69 5/15 p. 309 Have You Been Studying for Six Months? ***

    Those of you who have been studying the Bible for about six months should by now be in position to decide whether you are going to follow through on what you have learned. Do you really want to become a dedicated and baptized worshiper of Jehovah God and do you want to share with others the life-giving truths from God's Word? Your position in this matter is something to be considered very seriously.
    In view of the short time left in which to do their work, Jehovah's witnesses do not continue to study the Bible with any who fail to respond to its urgent message within six months. The nearness of this system's end compels them to use their time in the most effective way possible. So they feel obligated to spend their time calling on someone else who might respond by attending meetings at the Kingdom Hall and by speaking to others about the Bible truths learned. Thus it may be that if you have not as yet responded by even becoming a regular attender at some of the congregation meetings, the one who is studying the Bible with you may cancel that study arrangement in order to give his time to someone else.

    KNOWLEDGE BOOK (quickly, study one chapter per week, study only one WT book to be baptized not 2 as previous)

    *** km 12/95 p. 8 Return to Those Who Showed Interest ***

    When releasing the new book, Knowledge That Leads to Everlasting Life, the convention speaker explained that "honesthearted students should be able to learn enough through a study of it to take a stand for Jehovah and get baptized." The book is designed to teach the truth quickly.

    *** km 5/96 p. 7 Question Box ***

    Now that we have the book Knowledge That Leads to Everlasting Life, how long should a home Bible study be conducted?

    Our Kingdom Ministry for September 1993 recommended that a home Bible study be continued with newly interested ones until two books have been studied. Now that we have the Knowledge book, it seems advisable to make an adjustment in this procedure, as outlined on pages 13 and 14 of the January 15, 1996, issue of The Watchtower.
    The Knowledge book is designed to help those "rightly disposed for everlasting life" to learn what they need to know in order to make a dedication to Jehovah and get baptized. (Acts 13:48) Therefore, after completing this new publication, it should not be necessary to study a second book with the same student. As your Bible students begin to embrace the truth, you can progressively encourage them to round out their knowledge by attending meetings of Jehovah's Witnesses as well as by reading the Bible and various Christian publications.
    If you are thoroughly familiar with the questions on pages 175 to 218 of the book Organized to Accomplish Our Ministry, this may be helpful. Although you should not make reference to these questions or review them with the Bible student, it may be good to emphasize points in the Knowledge book that will enable the student to express a proper understanding of basic Bible truths when the elders review questions with baptism candidates.
    There is no need to supplement the information in the Knowledge book, bringing in outside material or additional arguments to support Bible teachings or to disprove false doctrines. This would only serve to extend the study over a longer period of time. Rather, it is hoped that the book can be covered rather quickly, perhaps in about six months. This emphasizes the need for us to study the material thoroughly in advance so that we can present it clearly and concisely. The student should likewise be urged to study in advance, look up cited scriptures, and endeavor to discern clearly what the book is teaching in each chapter.
    The Watchtower has stressed the need for Jehovah's Witnesses to conduct a greater number of effective Bible studies in a shorter period of time. (See Isaiah 60:22.) Effective use of the Knowledge book can help new ones to acquire the knowledge that leads to everlasting life and act upon it.-John 17:3.

    SIX MONTH STUDIES AGAIN

    *** km 6/96 p. 3 How to Make Disciples With the Knowledge Book ***

    Thus, with most persons, it may be possible to complete the book's 19 chapters in a matter of about six months or so.

    So their decision is neither hasty nor ill-informed

    BTW, is there a list of names of potential candidates for the brothers doing the baptizing? Do they mark off the names as they baptize each one? Are these names given to the CO, DO, elders in their congregation? Does the person go back and report to the secretary that they have been baptized? When and how does he update their publisher's card? Aren't only numbers tallied and recorded? Gender, age, etc. Do they interview the candidates for their background info for PR purposes? None of this happened when I was baptized but that was years ago.

    Repentance and Dedication

    Q5) What two fundamental steps does the first baptismal question emphasize?

    5) The first baptismal question asks the candidate if he has repented of his former life course and dedicated his life to Jehovah to do his will. This question emphasizes two vital steps that must be taken prior to baptism, namely repentance and dedication.

    How many non-JWs know that each candidate is supposed to have gone through about 200 questions with 3 separate elders before this day comes? How many elders actually go through the questions rather than made it a social event of talk and joking about? Did you know that women candidates usually have to have 2 elders there for chaperone purposes?

    Q6, 7) (a) Why is repentance necessary for all baptismal candidates? (b) What changes must be made after one has repented?

    6) Why must a person repent before presenting himself for baptism? The apostle Paul explains: "We all at one time conducted ourselves in harmony with the desires of our flesh." (Ephesians 2:3) Before we came to an accurate knowledge of God's will, we lived in harmony with the world, according to its values and standards. Our life course was under the control of the god of this system, Satan. (2 Corinthians 4:4) Having come to know God's will, however, we resolve to live "no more for the desires of men, but for God's will."-1 Peter 4:2.

    How do you as a woman feel to always see "person/himself" in cases where it obviously means both men and women? Do you feel somewhat excluded?

    Before...we lived in harmony with the world

    Thus there are no one living according to God's standards outside the WT organization

    Our life course was under the control of the god of this system, Satan---every non-JW is directly or indirectly worshipping/following Satan

    Resolve to live "no more for the desires of men"

    Just the desires of the WTS/FDS/GB, all men (women don't count on earth)

    7) This new course brings many rewards. Above all, it opens the way to a precious relationship with Jehovah, which David compared to an invitation to enter into God's "tent" and "holy mountain"-a grand privilege indeed. (Psalm 15:1) Logically, Jehovah would invite not just anyone but only those "walking faultlessly and practicing righteousness and speaking the truth in [their] heart." (Psalm 15:2) Depending on our circumstances before we learned the truth, meeting these requirements may mean that we must make certain changes-both in conduct and in personality. (1 Corinthians 6:9-11; Colossians 3:5-10) The motivation for such changes is repentance -deep regret over our former life course and a strong determination to please Jehovah. This leads to a complete turnabout - abandoning a selfish, worldly way of life and pursuing a course pleasing to God.-Acts 3:19.

    Relationship with Jehovah--WHERE'S JESUS?

    OT example allowing a reference to Jehovah rather than Jesus--David

    Logically--WTS buzzword

    Walk with Christ, follow whose footsteps closely?

    The truth--the entire body of WT teachings

    Repentance, regret, turnabout

    And has the WTS repenting over its mistaken prophecies?

    Q8) How do we make our dedication, and what connection does it have with baptism?

    8) The second part of the first baptismal question asks the candidates if they have dedicated themselves to Jehovah to do his will. Dedication is an essential step that must precede baptism. It is made in prayer, in which we express the desire to give our life to Jehovah through Christ. (Romans 14:7, 8; 2 Corinthians 5:15) Jehovah then becomes our Master and Owner, and like Jesus we delight to do God's will. (Psalm 40:8; Ephesians 6:6) This solemn promise to Jehovah is made only once. Since we make our dedication in private, however, a public declaration on the day of baptism serves to let everyone know that we have made this solemn dedication to our heavenly Father.-Romans 10:10.

    BTW, where is there any account in the Bible that any early Christians answered these questions?

    (Romans 14:8) 8 for both if we live, we live to Jehovah, and if we die, we die to Jehovah. Therefore both if we live and if we die, we belong to Jehovah.

    Where did the WTS translate "Jehovah" for this scripture? Paul wasn't quote from the OT. See how it changes the meaning. Christians belong to Christ.

    Romans 14:8 (Amplified Bible)

    If we live, we live to the Lord, and if we die, we die to the Lord. So then, whether we live or we die, we belong to the Lord.

    The next scripture is 2 Corinithians 5:15 that the WTS uses which is clearer and contradicts their translation of Romans 14:8.

    (2 Corinthians 5:15) 15 and he died for all that those who live might live no longer for themselves, but for him who died for them and was raised up.

    Made only once--no rebaptisms allowed

    Public declaration...Romans 10:10

    I thought that was only door to door work?

    Q9, 10) (a) What does doing God's will involve? (b) How did even Nazi officials recognize our dedication?

    9) What does following Jesus' example in doing God's will involve? Jesus said to his disciples: "If anyone wants to come after me, let him disown himself and pick up his torture stake and continually follow me." (Matthew 16:24) Here he outlined three things that we must do. First, we "disown" ourselves. In other words, we say no to our selfish, imperfect inclinations and yes to God's counsel and direction. Second, we `pick up our torture stake.' In Jesus' day a torture stake was a symbol of shame and suffering. As Christians, we accept our part in suffering for the sake of the good news. (2 Timothy 1:8) Although the world may ridicule or reproach us, like Christ we 'despise shame,' happy in the knowledge that we are pleasing God. (Hebrews 12:2) Finally, we follow Jesus "continually."-Psalm 73:26; 119:44; 145:2.

    Jesus said..."follow me"

    say...yes to God's counsel and direction

    pleasing God--or pleasing men

    Can you follow Christ without following the WTS?

    *** w99 1/15 p. 9 Determined to Follow God's Way of Life ***

    It is by listening to God's Word, the Holy Bible, and by following the direction that our Grand Instructor, Jehovah God, provides through it and through his modern-day Christian organization. Indeed, to do this is the(italics) only way to everlasting life." (itl

    Christians--only JWs

    suffering for the sake of the good news

    Are only JWs suffering for the sake of the good news?

    http://www.forum18.org/

    world--all non-JWs

    10 Interestingly, even some opposers recognize the dedication that Jehovah's Witnesses have made to God to serve him unreservedly. For example, in the Buchenwald concentration camp of Nazi Germany, Witnesses who refused to renounce their faith were required to sign the following printed statement: "I am still a committed Bible Student and will never break the oath I have sworn to Jehovah." Surely this well expresses the attitude of all dedicated, faithful servants of God!-Acts 5:32.

    Some opposers--WHO?

    Witnesses....still a committed Bible Student

    All dedicated, faithful servants of God--only JWs

    Are JWs the only ones who are unreservedly dedicated to God?

    The real history of the WT and Hitler:

    http://www.randytv.com/Hitler/watchtower_hitler.htm

    Blurb on page 23: Dedication is a solemn promise made to Jehovah in prayer

    Identified as One of Jehovah's Witnesses

    Q11) What privilege comes to one who gets baptized?

    11) The second question asks the candidate, first of all, if he understands that his baptism serves to identify him as one of Jehovah's Witnesses. After undergoing immersion, he becomes an ordained minister who bears Jehovah's name. This is both a great privilege and a serious responsibility. It also puts the one baptized in line for eternal salvation, provided he remains faithful to Jehovah. -Matthew 24:13.

    Identify him as one of Jehovah's Witnesses

    Are followers of Christ identified as JWs or Christians?

    After undergoing immersion, he becomes an ordained minister who bears Jehovah's name

    All JWs are then considered ordained ministers on the basis of their JW baptism.

    Aren't Christians bearing Jesus' name?

    CARROT--puts the one baptized in line for eternal salvation

    On earth or in heaven? Notice how they skip that detail. All people baptized in the first century became Christians to rule as kings and priests in heaven with Christ.

    Q12) What obligation accompanies the honor of bearing Jehovah's name?

    12) Certainly, it is a singular honor to bear the name of the almighty God, Jehovah. The prophet Micah said: "All the peoples, for their part, will walk each one in the name of its god; but we, for our part, shall walk in the name of Jehovah our God to time indefinite, even forever." (Micah 4:5) Nevertheless, an obligation accompanies this honor. We must strive to live our life in a way that brings honor to the name we bear. As Paul reminded the Christians in Rome, if one does not practice what one preaches, the name of God is "blasphemed," or brought into disrepute.-Romans 2:21-24.

    OT reference again to tie "Jehovah" to a Christian's walking in Christ's path.

    Name we bear--Christ or Jehovah? Why did Jesus say Paul would bear Jesus' name to the nations, not Jehovah's?

    (Acts 9:15) 15 But the Lord (Jesus) said to him: "Be on your way, because this man is a chosen vessel to me to bear my name to the nations as well as to kings and the sons of Israel.

    By what name did "providence" have Jesus' followers come to be known as?

    (Acts 11:26) . . .and it was first in Antioch that the disciples were by divine providence called Christians.

    Were the Christians in Rome also JWs?

    13) Why do dedicated servants of Jehovah have the responsibility to witness about their God?

    13) When a person becomes one of Jehovah's Witnesses, he also assumes the responsibility to witness about his God. Jehovah invited the dedicated nation of Israel to be his witnesses in order to testify to his eternal Godship. (Isaiah 43:10-12, 21) But the nation failed to fulfill this role, and they eventually lost Jehovah's favor completely. Today, true Christians are proud to have the privilege of bearing witness to Jehovah. We do so because we love him and long for his name to be sanctified. How can we be silent when we know the truth about our heavenly Father and his purpose? We feel as did the apostle Paul when he said: "Necessity is laid upon me. Really, woe is me if I did not declare the good news! "-1 Corinthians 9:16.

    becomes one of Jehovah's Witnesses

    Not a Christian?

    Witness about his God

    Not Jesus? Are Christians identified as witnesses of Jesus or Jehovah?

    (Acts 1:8) but YOU will receive power when the holy spirit arrives upon YOU, and YOU will be witnesses of me both in Jerusalem and in all Ju·de´a and Sa·mar´i·a and to the most distant part of the earth."
    (Revelation 12:17) 17 And the dragon grew wrathful at the woman, and went off to wage war with the remaining ones of her seed, who observe the commandments of God and have the work of bearing witness to Jesus.
    (Revelation 17:6) 6 And I saw that the woman was drunk with the blood of the holy ones and with the blood of the witnesses of Jesus.. . .
    (Revelation 19:10) . . .All I am is a fellow slave of you and of your brothers who have the work of witnessing to Jesus.. . .
    (Revelation 20:4) . . .Yes, I saw the souls of those executed with the ax for the witness they bore to Jesus and for speaking about God, and those who had worshiped neither the wild beast nor its image and who had not received the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand. . . .

    Q14, 15) (a) What role does Jehovah's organization play in our spiritual growth? (b) What provisions are available to help us spiritually?

    14) The second question also reminds the candidate of his responsibility to work with Jehovah's spirit-directed organization. We are not alone in serving God, and we need the help, support, and encouragement of "the whole association of brothers." (1 Peter 2:17; 1 Corinthians 12:12, 13) God's organization plays a vital role in our spiritual growth. It provides a wealth of Bible publications that help us to grow in accurate knowledge, to act wisely when we are faced with problems, and to cultivate a close relationship with God. Like a mother who makes sure that her child is well-fed and cared for, "the faithful and discreet slave" provides an abundance of timely spiritual food for our spiritual advancement.-Matthew 24:45-47; 1 Thessalonians 2:7, 8.

    Work with Jehovah's spirit-directed organization--the WTS

    Whole association of brothers--only the WTS

    Can anyone approach Christ without going through the WTS? Are they our "mother" or our brothers?

    *** w94 10/1 p. 8 The Bible-A Book Meant to Be Understood ***

    Even as Bible prophecy pointed forward to the Messiah, it also directs us to the close-knit body of anointed Christian Witnesses that now serve as the faithful and discreet slave. It helps us to understand the Word of God. All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "greatly diversified wisdom of God" can become known only through Jehovah's channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave.-John 6:68.

    15) At weekly meetings, Jehovah's people receive the needed training and encouragement to be faithful Witnesses of Jehovah. (Hebrews 10:24, 25) The Theocratic Ministry School teaches us to speak in public, and the Service Meeting trains us to present our message effectively. Both at our meetings and through our personal study of Bible publications, we can see Jehovah's spirit at work, directing his organization. By means of these regular provisions, God alerts us to dangers, trains us to be effective ministers, and helps us to keep spiritually awake. -Psalm 19:7, 8, 11; 1 Thessalonians 5:6, 11; 1 Timothy 4:13.

    Training...to be faithful Witnesses of Jehovah

    Why not faithful Christians, followers of Christ?

    Both at our meetings and through our personal study of Bible (WTS) publications, we see Jehovah's spirit at work, directing his organization.

    Directing them to believe that the "superior authorities" at Romans 13 were secular governments from 1879 to 1929, Jesus and God from 1929 to 1962, and back to secular governments in 1962. This and other flip-flop doctrines prove that God is not directing the WTS.

    http://www.cftf.com/booklets/jwslisten/flipflops.htm

    The Motivation Behind the Decision

    Q16) What motivates us to dedicate ourselves to Jehovah?

    16) The two baptismal questions thus remind the candidates of the significance of water baptism and the responsibilities it brings. What, then, should motivate them to make the decision to get baptized? We become baptized disciples, not because someone forces us, but because Jehovah "draws" us. (John 6:44) Since "God is love," he rules the universe by love, not by force. (1 John 4:8) We are drawn to Jehovah by his kind qualities and by the way he deals with us. Jehovah gave his only-begotten Son for us and offers us the best possible future. (John 3:16) In turn, we are moved to offer him--to dedicate to him--our life.-Proverbs 3:9; 2 Corinthians 5:14,
    15.

    We become baptized disciples, not because someone forces us.

    Children of JWs and students of JWs are emotionally blackmailed with the caution that if they do not get baptized that they will not be "good association" and will be shunned by family and friends and will soon die eternally at Armageddon.

    *** w89 9/1 p. 19 Remaining Organized for Survival Into the Millennium ***

    Only Jehovah's Witnesses, those of the anointed remnant and the "great crowd," as a united organization under the protection of the Supreme Organizer, have any Scriptural hope of surviving the impending end of this doomed system dominated by Satan the Devil.

    Blurb on page 25: Our preaching work demonstrates our dedication to God

    Q17) To what have we not dedicated ourselves?

    17) We dedicate ourselves, not to a cause or to a work, but to Jehovah himself. The work that God has for his people will change, but their dedication to him remains the same. For example, what he told Abraham to do was very different from what he told Jeremiah to do. (Genesis 13:17,18; Jeremiah 1:6, 7) Yet, both of them carried out the specific task God gave them to do because they loved Jehovah and desired to do his will faithfully. During this time of the end, all baptized followers of Christ strive to carry out Christ's command to preach the Kingdom good news and to make disciples. (Matthew 24:14; 28:19, 20) Doing that work wholeheartedly is a fine way to show that we love our heavenly Father and that we are truly dedicated to him.-1 John 5:3.

    dedicate...not to a cause or a work...work will change...what he told Abraham (OT) to do was very different from what he told Jeremiah (OT) to do

    2 more OT examples for how to live a Christian life. How can they show us how to love Jesus since they never knew him.
    And what new tasks does the WTS have in store for the rank and file?

    If we don't preach the WTS way, we don't love God??????

    love our heavenly father--Where's Jesus?

    Q18, 19) (a) What public statement do we make by means of our baptism? (b) What will be considered in the following article?

    18) Without a doubt, baptism opens up the way to many blessings, but it is not a step to be taken lightly. (Luke 14:26-33) It expresses a resolve that takes priority over every other responsibility. (Luke 9:62) When we get baptized, we are really making the public statement: "This God is our God to time indefinite, even forever. He himself will guide us until we die."-Psalm 48:14.

    Where's Jesus in all this?????????????????????????????

    19) The following article will examine further questions that may arise in connection with water baptism. Might there be valid reasons for a person to hold back from getting baptized? Should age be a factor? How can all contribute to the dignity of the occasion of baptism?

    valid reasons for a person to hold back from getting baptized?
    Should age be a factor?---
    how young is too young, 4, 5, 6, 7?Dignity of the occasion of baptism.

    The WTS is trying to build up the numbers.......younger children, older teenagers and Bible students that don't want to be in a position to be DF'd and still associate with family?

    Dignity--are people wearing revealing swimsuits again and holding hands in the pool and having parties and giving people flowers...........

    Can You Explain?

    - Why does each Christian need to repent before baptism?
    - What does dedication to God involve?
    - What responsibilities come with the honor of bearing Jehovah's name?
    - What should motivate us to make the decision to be baptized?

    Concluding Comments

    The district conventions are coming up and the WTS has to get the shrinking baptismal numbers up. What is the youngest you have ever seen baptized. Look at page 28 and tell me how old that girl is, 7? Paragraph 18 said, "baptism...takes priority over every other responsibility." Is this girl ready to be married, drive a car, have a scotch, vote for president, sign a lease....yet she is old enough to choose to become a JW.

    Young JWs are also told by parents that if they get baptized, they will buy them a car but if they don't they have to move out when they turn 18.............

    The WTS also teaches that everyone who is not baptized as a JW, will die at Armageddon.

    (Ezekiel 9:3-6) . . .. 4 And Jehovah went on to say to him: "Pass through the midst of the city, through the midst of Jerusalem, and you must put a mark on the foreheads of the men that are sighing and groaning over all the detestable things that are being done in the midst of it." 5 And to these [others] he said in my ears: "Pass through the city after him and strike. Let not your eye feel sorry, and do not feel any compassion. 6 Old man, young man and virgin and little child and women YOU should kill off-to a ruination. But to any man upon whom there is the mark do not go near, and from my sanctuary YOU should start." So they started with the old men that were before the house.

    *** w96 1/15 p. 17 Jehovah's Sheep Need Tender Care ***

    As a result of his dedication and baptism, he becomes 'marked' for salvation.-Ezekiel 9:4-6.

    A little cool today, but we are still working on the yard. Too soon to plant, except maybe some containers. We make our last payment on our vehicle this month. Good timing, now that gas is going up and up and up. That should put a crimp in the D2D work. Have a good weekend!

    Love, Blondie

  • garybuss
    garybuss

    So ALL Jehovah's Witnesses are ordained ministers BY VIRTUE OF THEIR BAPTISM, not their service. Here's the new membership NUMBER booster. Now they can just count those baptized as ordained ministers and it has nothing to do with "service". Hahahaha!!!!
    If you were EVER baptized, haven't died (yet) and have not been kicked out of the group (yet) you can now be counted as a Jehovah's Witness (minister).

  • Severus
    Severus

    Baptisms are so down. At the last assembly I attended (this year) the speaker was actually mentioned each of the names of the baptism candidates (8 total) in his talk!

    Days gone by (ending in the 80's/early 90's) there would be 50+ baptisms at conventions and at least 20 at assemblies with various ages.

    Now there are about 15-20 at conventions and 3-10 at assemblies with maybe one adult in the group, all else teens or preteens.

  • Bumble Bee
    Bumble Bee

    Q14, 15) (a) What role does Jehovah's organization play in our spiritual growth? (b) What provisions are available to help us spiritually?

    14) The second question also reminds the candidate of his responsibility to work with Jehovah's spirit-directed organization. We are not alone in serving God, and we need the help, support, and encouragement of "the whole association of brothers." (1 Peter 2:17; 1 Corinthians 12:12, 13) God's organization plays a vital role in our spiritual growth. It provides a wealth of Bible publications that help us to grow in accurate knowledge, to act wisely when we are faced with problems, and to cultivate a close relationship with God. Like a mother who makes sure that her child is well-fed and cared for, "the faithful and discreet slave" provides an abundance of timely spiritual food for our spiritual advancement.-Matthew 24:45-47; 1 Thessalonians 2:7, 8.

    and we need the help, support, and encouragement of "the whole association of brothers."

    How many people actually experience this help, support and encouragment?? The terms "whole association of brothers" is a crock of you know what!
    It provides a wealth of Bible publications that help us to grow in accurate knowledge,

    Yes it certainly provides a ton of so called "bible" publications, but they certainly aren't filled with accurate knowledge. When I left and started reviewing what I thought I knew - I was shocked to realize I knew nothing about the bible!

    Like a mother who makes sure that her child is well-fed and cared for, "the faithful and discreet slave" provides an abundance of timely spiritual food for our spiritual advancement.

    How many are really advancing spiritually? How can you with everything being "dumbed" down so much in recent years? The spiritual knowledge in this religion has gone way downhill with this generation. People used to actually study and debate bible topics in the past. Not so anymore.

  • heathen
    heathen
    Those who qualify (qualified by the elders) for baptism (as Christians or JWs) have usually studied the Bible (WT publications) for months or even a year or two (6 months and no progress then dropped)

    Yep that was me alright . After a couple of months you are bound to question some of their reasonings and once you do that and are not swayed by their attempts to humiliate you, will see no point in calling them " the friends".

    I almost gagged at the study of bible truths part , I think they mean , the study of WTBTS dogma. The bible does not show people studying the bible for months before they were baptized . The apostle Paul warned of throwing pearls of wisdom before swine , which really means having been baptized since also referred to those that leave as swine returning to it's mire . In Acts of apostles people were baptized on the day of hearing the good news . These people are sick , with their --- " as long as you are a study you are saved " , BS That's what I kept hearing . When I asked to be baptized they said I wasn't ready yet , now where in the bible does it say that as a reply ? IMO they are as blood guilty as the next one .

    That's my main point after reading all that . I do disagree with more of it tho.

  • Bumble Bee
    Bumble Bee

    Q16) What motivates us to dedicate ourselves to Jehovah?

    16) The two baptismal questions thus remind the candidates of the significance of water baptism and the responsibilities it brings. What, then, should motivate them to make the decision to get baptized? We become baptized disciples, not because someone forces us, but because Jehovah "draws" us. (John 6:44) Since "God is love," he rules the universe by love, not by force. (1 John 4:8) We are drawn to Jehovah by his kind qualities and by the way he deals with us. Jehovah gave his only-begotten Son for us and offers us the best possible future. (John 3:16) In turn, we are moved to offer him--to dedicate to him--our life.-Proverbs 3:9; 2 Corinthians 5:14,

    15.

    We become baptized disciples, not because someone forces us.

    Children of JWs and students of JWs are emotionally blackmailed with the caution that if they do not get baptized that they will not be "good association" and will be shunned by family and friends and will soon die eternally at Armageddon.

    Well I can say from my experience - Jehovah did not "draw" me to become baptized. I had been getting pressure for several years to get baptized, from elders, so called "well meaning" older sisters in the hall and my mother. I kept putting it off saying I wanted to finish high school first etc. When my younger brother said he wanted to get baptized, my mom spoke to one of the elders and told him we both wanted to get baptized. I didn't have much of a choice. That was about 18 years ago (gawd it doesn't seem like that long ago!) and at that CA there were only about 8 of us.

    Did you know that women candidates usually have to have 2 elders there for chaperone purposes?

    My husband and I were talking about this last night. He said the one brother asked him if he was having any problems with masturbation etc when going over his questions. I was shocked and said if they had asked me anything like that - a single young woman alone with an older man and started discussing such a subject - I could have them charged with sexual harassement. I would have liked to have had someone else there with me, but not necessarily another elder! It was uncomfortable being in a closed room alone with the elders.

    BB

  • Ingenuous
    Ingenuous

    My mother and I used to have a study with a little girl. When she didn't decide she wanted to be a JW after 6 months, we dropped her. We didn't give her or her mom any warning. Her mother was angry - since her daughter enjoyed the study so much - and the little girl cried when we told her we couldn't study with her anymore. It still breaks my heart to think about how we hurt this child's feelings over Society policy. It never occurred to us to simply sit down with her once a week and talk about the Bible just because she enjoyed it - instead, it was about numbers and being obedient to the "Slave."
    On the topic of baptisms: When I was baptized in the early 90's, there was a whole section of the convention center set aside for baptismal candidates to sit in during the talk. It took the entire lunch period to get everyone dunked. Nowadays, you watch the 4 people who stood up get baptized and have over an hour to spare to socialize.

  • juni
    juni
    Is this girl ready to be married, drive a car, have a scotch, vote for president, sign a lease....yet she is old enough to choose to become a JW.

    That always irritated us - COs coming in and pushing for these young ones to reach out for baptism when they are too young to make such an important commitment.

    Thanks Blondie for your info. I don't know how you find the time to do this every week.

    Juni

  • drew sagan
    drew sagan

    The thing that really gets me is the fact that baptism shouldn't be used as a signup for an organization. Instead it is your dedication to GOD! To say that getting baptised makes one a JW I think is where the first offense occurs. It puts the WTS on the same level as God himself.
    I have no problem at all with young kids getting baptised to serve God. I DO HAVE A PROBLEM if that baptism is then held over them the rest of their life in the form of organizational membership, with alligence to the WTS alone.

  • Will Power
    Will Power

    Well put Drew:
    I have no problem at all with young kids getting baptised to serve God. I DO HAVE A PROBLEM if that baptism is then held over them the rest of their life in the form of organizational membership, with alligence to the WTS alone.

    wp

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