The "study" went GREAT, my mom NOW has questions!!!!

by FreedomFrog 33 Replies latest jw friends

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  FreedomFrog

  Ask her why the 144,000 is a literal number but in the SAME paragraph, the description that they are all Jews is only symbolic? Bring out that it should be both literal or both symbolic.

  Oh, this is a good one. I have lots of time to research and study up on this. What I'm trying to "prove" is that it's possible that this religion is just like the other...just another religion. Made by man and that all of this is theroies. And theroies are ok, just it steps the bounds when they start making rules to where your family is told to shun. I don't tell her this, but I'm hoping that with these "studies" she can come to that conclusion on her own.

  The 700 vs 7,000 got their attention, but I think the randcam was what hit my parents the most. Especially because I was able to get it off the gov. site and showed them that it was NOT connected to "apostates" in any way. When discussing the randcam issue, I started off asking if it would be ok for a JW to take "blood" money even if they weren't involved with the killing....in my senerio it would have been donated to them. She AND dad said no. Not if people were killed over it. Then I was able to bring up the randcam. And man, you should have seen their wheels turning. So the Mexico/Malawi thing might be the next good step to take. I'll do some thinking and research.

  My Aunt and Uncle came over just as I was leaving. They said a quick hi when I said hi, but started their shunning. After about 1/2 hour, my mom called to make sure I was ok. She said that she didn't think it was right my aunt and uncle to shun me like that since I'm not disfellowshipped. I feel like she's starting to open up more about all of this. But I have LOTS of time. I'm trying to go slow enough that it won't push them back futher.

  FF
• 

  FreedomFrog

  I think it is best to next challenge WT bible interpretations, not the bible itself. You got your mom to start thinking and don’t want the ‘inside-wall’ to jump up. When I first left and my family was in, I found questions demanding scriptural evidence to work best. I also think it is important to tell them how you feel about certain WT teachings. Don’t say you believe and know different or they might consider you apostate influenced.

  That's a good point Freetosee. The one thing I am trying to avoid is having them put a wall up. So far the wall is either coming down or is down. So now I need to keep that wall from coming up. They shut me out about 3 years ago when I first left the JW‘s. But at that time I was putting too much on them too quick. You could barely keep me down with it. I found out that was a big mistake. Now it’s been close to 2 years without talking much about it. So everything has been put to rest. And THEY are the ones starting with the discussions this time. Right now, I think I’ll give them a few months to think about what we’ve discussed. Then by that time, I should be able to narrow what we can discuss for the next time.
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  mkr32208

  I disagree with several posters here on where you should go next! The problem I see is that if you go after the society then the apostate thing will come up almost instantaneously! You got a crack in the wall by using the bible! Keep hitting that crack! Another GREAT one is the temple! If you figure out the measurements from the bible it would have been only about 2400 square feet! About the size of the average house! Then start adding up all of the things that Solomon put INTO the temple and the 30,000 men that worked in shifts for YEARS and the millions of tons of gold and silver... It's really fairly stupid!

  One of the posters (Fred Titanich) has written a book Called "the Atheist Book of Bible Stories" it's a great one for hitting these glaring inconsistencies in the book itself! Maybe someone has a link or knows his screen name?? Once the book has been shown to be full of holes then start hitting the society! Every case is different but I think if they are listening on one topic you stay on THAT topic!

  Just my .02!
• 

  FreedomFrog

  I disagree with several posters here on where you should go next! The problem I see is that if you go after the society then the apostate thing will come up almost instantaneously! You got a crack in the wall by using the bible! Keep hitting that crack!

  Yes, that's my fear. I do want to be careful not to attack their religion since they do hold that so dear. But at the same time, I also want to be careful not to attack their bible which they hold even more dear. Balance is needed here, especially at this critical time.

  One of the posters (Fred Titanich) has written a book Called "the Atheist Book of Bible Stories" it's a great one for hitting these glaring inconsistencies in the book itself! Maybe someone has a link or knows his screen name?? Once the book has been shown to be full of holes then start hitting the society! Every case is different but I think if they are listening on one topic you stay on THAT topic!

  Oh I did love that book. AlmostAtheist sent me a big portion of it and my favorite part is where Pharaoh’s horses ended up being killed three times, pretty resilient horses I‘d say… hehehehe. He wrote that book so well.
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  Mary

  Excellent......if you're going to bring up another doctrine to discuss, I strongly recommend you do the 586 - 607 BCE. If you can get your parents to see that Jerusalem was not destroyed in 607 BCE, then they'll quickly realize that the Governing Body's assertion that they were chosen by God in 1919 to be the F&DS, is nothing more than smoke and mirrors.

  Someone did an excellent post on here a while ago showing how you can prove the dates simply from the bible itself, but I can't remember who it was.....anyone else know?........you should also read "The Gentile Times Reconsidered" before you talk to your parents so you can be well rehearsed on the topic.

  Good luck.
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  FreedomFrog

  you should also read "The Gentile Times Reconsidered" before you talk to your parents so you can be well rehearsed on the topic.

  The 607 keeps being suggested so I think I will get that book and research it. Though, I need to keep it as simple. And when it comes to numbers, dates and math, I myself tend to get lost. Hehehehe
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  mkr32208

  607 is very simple! The problem is that they will TRY to make it complex to support their own theories! Scholar pretendous does that a lot he throws out so much verbal diarrhea in an attempt to muddy the water and avoid the issue! I would get some of the post from AlanF and I think it was "alleysmom" that make this so crystal clear and then use the kings list from the Daniel book (page 92 maybe?) make some notes so they don't see printed material from the internet and read that idiot "scholar's" replies a few times because you WILL be hearing his asinine arguments repeated if you bring this up!

  If you can find out what freds online id is and PM him he will send you the whole book... It's very very good!
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  freetosee

  That’s a good one Mary! The whole teaching crumbles down on this one.

  Is this the one you mean: http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/10/112819/1.ashx

  Keeping it simple is important. I found “Gentiletimes Reconsidered” difficult yet very good to read
• 

  AuldSoul

  The mediator issue is a big deal with a lot of JWs. Most that I spoke with before my exit (including my mother) did not know that the Governing Body teaches that Jesus is not the mediator for all mankind. Let me know if you need more details.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
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  FreedomFrog

  Ok, you may need to explain the 607 BC thing to me in A.B.C form... hehehe. I've read over some of this and my brain gets a "block". I know this is just a mentality thing because I'd do this when I was made to go to the Kingdom Hall. Some of you say it's simple and some not. Can you please start me out somewhere where it's as simple as kindergarten work ;)

  While I wait for responses... I'm gonna take my daughter and son fishing ;) My brain needs a rest...phew.

  FF