peacable = true religion

by Moxy 19 Replies latest jw friends

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  Moxy

  please help me out a bit with this.

  JWs, as a religion, are taught to live peacably. they do not go to war nor will they generally support it.

  now, if i were to play the role of an apologist, i think i would just keep hamering on this point. "catholic killing catholic and protestant killing protestant" was such a great phrase and ties in so nicely with Johm 13:35. now, let me play devils advocate and hear some rebuttals. of course, i already have some ideas but id like some input. for example, i dont really know how much of the same could be said about hindu or buddhist teachings which seem pretty pacifist. i dont want to hear counter-arguments that venture into other topics, eg 'you wont kill people in wars, but you kill your own children by refusing blood.' just stick to the idea of whether or not the JWs are truly peacable and how unique they are.
  thanks

  mox
• 

  openminded

  I know for fact, the Hutterites an Omish(and I think Mennonite) are completely pacifist. So I do not see how the JW's can claim to be unique. -OM
• 

  openminded

  The Hutterian Brethren or Hutterites are a religious group originating from the Reformation of the 16th century. Their roots are found in Switzerland where a group of bible students came to the conclusions;
  That baptising babies is not biblical.
  That the Bible requires the separation of church and state.
  That a Christian should not wield the sword (pacifist)
  That the Lord's Supper is symbolic of the suffering of Jesus, and should be done in remembrance of him
  These 4 points became the basis for this movement. The followers of this movement known as the Anabaptists or rebaptisers.
  The religion of the Hutterites is unique in their belief in the community of goods in which all material things are held in common. This idea is gleaned from the teachings of Jesus, where he told the rich young Ruler what he still lacked; Luke 18, from the fact that Jesus and his disciples shared everything; John 12 , from Acts 2: 44-47 where we see that the apostles had all things common and other Scripture. Hutterites believe community of goods is the highest command of love.

  All members of the colony are provided for equally and nothing is kept for personal gain. Hutterites do not have personal bank account; rather all earnings are held communally and funding and necessities are distributed according to one's needs.

  Hutterites attend a 1/2 hour church service almost every day besides a 1 1/2 hour service every Sunday and common religious holiday. Church service consists of singing, praying and preaching of Scripture and Hutterian teachings
• 

  Introspection

  Well, I should think peace starts with the person's own heart, not whether the person takes up arms and go to war. One thing is for sure about the eastern meditative traditions, they emphasize working on the individual. The JW way is to conform to a set of rules. This is evident by the way that nobody knows what to make of conscience matters. (although they may think they do)

  "Soy un perdedor
  I'm a loser baby, so why don't you kill me? (get crazy with the cheese whiz)" - Loser, by Beck Hansen
• 

  Satanus

  I know this is a different timeframe. Joseph campbell said that the caananites were more peaceful than the warlike invading jews. He said they were more peaceful because they had goddesses in their pantheon. So maybe if jehover would have had a few more asherahs, christians would have been more peaceful.

  S
• 

  barry

  Im an SDA and a pacifist I would help in a war in a non combattent role only if i had to wear a uniform that wouldnt because in wartime the whole country is geared for war anyhow. In the second world war my grandfather was a beekeeper and the country needed the wax to make ammunition so how can someone exclude themselves from all activities in a country in wartime?
• 

  Jim Lad

  Openminded: Thanks for the info on Hutterites, there's quite a few in Western Canada and the ones I've met I find quite likeable.
• 

  hillary_step

  Hello Moxy,

  A sleepless night has driven me to your post!

  Your question is very interesting and deserves much consideration.

  The JW's have indeed developed a remarkable ethic in their worldwide reputation as a 'peaceful' body of people. As you know JW’s are not officially pacifists. Within Law they have fought many cases around the world with a great degree of success to maintain this stand and they have to be respected for this. I would certainly prefer to have been surrounded by JW’s during the Ruandan tribal crisis a few years ago than the average Hutu or Tutsi.

  It really is not relevant or even fair to try to undermine this record by then stating, ‘Yes, but the ‘xxxxx’ religion do not go to war, or partake in civil disturbance either, so what is so special about the JW’s!’ This actually results in a self-defeating argument as it fully acknowledges that the JW’s do indeed have an admirable record in this regard.

  The point is, that not all that the WTS stands for is wrong. Unless we can understand that at the point that the WTS falls under the shadow of Christian ethics it by default benefits from them, as do all religions, then we are not in a position to judge the WTS impartially. Though it may be convenient to live in a world of black and white, saints and sinners, life is not like that and neither is the WTS. The WTS has attached to it some death-dealing doctrines and policies and these need to be changed NOW not in Theo's ‘good time’. Once these are changed, the WT will just be classed as another harmless though eccentric religion and imho will at last have something of real value to offer; a support system that does not rely on conditions.

  Barry of SDA fame, with whom I have corresponded, makes some interesting points. Note his earlier communication regarding the treatment of dissidents, disfellowshipping, communal activities etc. Search the face of the SDA very well, you are likely looking at tomorrow’s WTS.

  Thank you Mox, for raising an interesting subject -- HS
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  ballistic

  can I just say I've seen squabbling, back stabbing and even outright violence in the truth, once even on field service. The police were called many times to our house due to domestic disputes and hospitalisations were not un-common. Once, I called on a house opposite a ministerial servant's and they said, "if the rows them Jehovah's Witnesses have over there are anything to go by, I'm not interested." One brother threatened to "punch my lights out" on one occasion. One sister I know used to get into spoilt brat tantrums and knocked a game board we were playing up into the air 'cas she was loosing. And I've seen brawling on a football pitch between two brothers.

  And my answer: well, you're bound to get one off incidents, we're all imperfect and we all come from different walks of life like Jesus' disciples. LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL
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  hillary_step

  Ballistic,

  You note:
  

  can I just say I've seen squabbling, back stabbing and even outright violence in the truth, once even on field service.

  While I do not disagree with your assertion, 'squabbling and back-stabbing' can hardly fit comfortably into the area of discussion that Moxy focused on, which dealt specifically with taking up of arms in warfare.

  As to physical violence within the body of JW's, my own experience is that this is very rare ocurrence. Even if 60,000 cases of it were reported worldwide it would still only constitute 1% of the membership.

  Best regards - HS