by Moxy 19 Replies latest jw friends
HILARY
The originator of the post said to stick to the point and...
just stick to the idea of whether or not the JWs are truly peacable and how unique they are
surely peacable starts with your own brothers and sisters and family memers?
Also what is this basis for 1% or 60,000. Have you done a survey or are you just relying on brothers that come forward to tell you they've been beating their wives up.
Ballistic,
Thank you for your note and comments.
The notional argument stated by Mox is this:
JWs, as a religion, are taught to live peacably. they do not go to war nor will they generally support it.
and
"catholic killing catholic and protestant killing protestant"
As to the 1% figure stated, of course I have not done a survey, my intent was to show that physical violence is a minority problem within the JW's and not a 'majority' one. Do you actually feel that it is a 'majority' problem? I am open to persuation.
Best regards -- HS
HILARY
OK - I agree it is a minority problem, but when you talk to someone who has been brought up in a violent Jehovah's Witness family who's two faced step father is still a good standing ministerial servant and you are disfellowshipped for a slip up, you're bound to get a slightly emotional response.
OK, HERE'S HOW I STAND.
With regard to the peacefulness and uniqueness of the witnesses, I would say, in general, the majority are, however, the great majority, collectively show little understanding of THE SPIRIT OF THE LAW OF LOVE, and perpetrate INSTITUTIONAL HATRED for their "enemies".
Ballistic,
Yes, I well understand your frustration and I am sincerly sorry about your family situation. You are still young and once the dust settles you will see new horizons before you. I hope that life treats you a little more kindly in the future than it has in the past.
You note:
collectively show little understanding of THE SPIRIT OF THE LAW OF LOVE, and perpetrate INSTITUTIONAL HATRED for their "enemies".
I am in complete agreement with this statement. JW's are victims of a philosophy that emotionally blackmails people into loving one another. Rather like a father telling his son to love his sister because if he does not he will be punished for his lack of love. This is far removed from the simplicity of true Christian love.
My best to you Ballistic - HS
Hi Moxy,
i always enjoy your posts. This is a thought-provoking idea.
However, the premise is that a Christian must refrain from war activities.
It's asserted (not proven?) by the WTS Reasoning book that no soldier remained such after becoming a Christian. HOWEVER, is there any direct evidence from the Bible that this is so? Cornelius became a Christian while a soldier and, as far as I know, remained one.
I couldn't answer your question, because the base for it is not proven to me.
In fact, coudn't there be a good argument made for the immorality of letting everyone else defend one's nation in a war? While a pacifist sit safely at home reaping the benefits, your sons safe.
One book that brought out this point to me was "The Postman." In that, the survivalists and other ne'er do wells were attacking peaceable folks' villages. They had a call to arms to defend their village. I tried to picture a JW saying their spiel, and it looked all wrong to me.
Sorry, I just don't buy the premise and tend to think it's more immoral to sit back, reap the advantages, and let someone else fight for your rights. That is, in a actual attack.
Pat
The JW's are always boasting how they fulfil the swords into plowshares and neither will they learn war anymore scripture... yet, on my final shepherding call, they said they were engaging in "spiritual" warfare with me.
Hmmmm....
ok, lemme respond a bit. thanks for some great thoughts ballistic, H_S, patio et al.
i think that ballistics comments on inter-personal relationships DO have some bearing on the question of peacableness, since the proof text in question, Jo13:35, does not specify. however this is a subjective area and while i do not doubt that there are bad examples, i would have difficulty trying to believe that JWs are no more peacable than the general populace in personal relationships. the question of 'spirit of the law' is also relevant but subjective.
i suppose my question does seem to reflect a black-and-white thinking, and i must acknowledge that i may have been drawn into that way of thinking by the WTs own methods. specifically in this case, JWs like to approach the question of true religion in an eliminative argument. ie, Jo13:35 eliminates all religions that encourages members to take up arms. Mt 24:14 eliminates all exclusionist religions (like the anabaptist offshoots eg Hutterites) and so on. JWs are left standing. that is why so many here have had the experience of questioning some clearly erroneous teaching like WT chronology and being met with, 'well so what if you're right. who else has the truth?' it matters less that everything the WT teaches be right than that everyone else be wrong. of course i do not agree with this approach. if my question reflected an eliminative way of thinking, than perhaps i should rethink it. perhaps as i believe H_S seems to suggest, i should simply say, 'yes you're right. you are very peacable. kudos.' and move on. in and of itself, it does not establish anything. what do you think?
patio: in the role of an apologist, i would not try to establish first-century precedent to support my argument but simply use Jo13:35 and thump away on it. i am interested in the record of the early christians myself tho.
mox
Jehovah's Witnesses have accomplished something extraordinary. Considering that they emerged and evolved in the midst of the greatest turmoil the world has ever experienced it is amazing that they have not picked up the sword to kill their fellow man.
You can hate the Jehovah of the old testament but Christ more than makes up for it by his willingness to die for his fellow man. Jehovah's Witnesses stand alone on this issue.
I would like to hear the usual bunch of critics contribute to this thread. Tear away!
I do not understand you the point you are trying to make proplog
Ballistic:
There are scriptures in the Bible that refer to a group called "the holy ones".
This group of "holy ones" have a significant role in what the bible calls the "last days".
If you believe in the Bible then you had better identify these "holy ones".
The Bible indicates that this would not be difficult because they would "shine" in a spiritual sense.
JW's are unique in their relationship to the rest of the world. One of the things that make them unique is their "neutrality".
That's the point I am trying to make.
