Finding Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Faith

by Marvin Shilmer 22 Replies latest jw friends

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  Marvin Shilmer

  Finding Jehovah’s Witnesses’ Faith

  I have a question for serious participants of this forum:

  What do you deem the most reliable means for determining the various convictions held by the population of Jehovah’s Witnesses in terms of the range of what individuals within that group consider as core tenets of their faith?

  As you ponder the question also ask yourself this: Do you consider the Vatican the most reliable means for determining the range of conviction among Roman Catholics regarding contraceptives?

  Marvin Shilmer
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  sir82

  I would say, the topics of their conversations and the actions they engage in.

  For example, on blood transfusions: There have been numerous cases cited on this and other boards indicating that many JWs, when "push comes to shove", will quietly draw a doctor aside and say "look, if it comes right down to it, and my life hangs on whether I take a blood transfusion or not, give me the blood--but make sure no one else knows about it".

  And, also regarding blood, I have first hand knowledge of "blood card signing sessions" where 8 or 10 JWs gather around and ask each other "how did you fill in line 4? How did you fill in line 5?" with their blank cards in front of them. And then they proceed to just fill in whatever everybody else has filled in.

  I contrast this attitude with what existed 20+ years ago, when people were seriously concerned with what the WT said on blood, and really tried to study the Bible, and tried to harmonize it with what the WT taught, and I see a marked change. It seems as though more and more are, at least quietly, ignoring the WT directives.

  Regarding their faith in the teaching that that Armageddon is "really really soon now", as trumpeted in Watchtower after Watchtower: I doubt many people seriously believe it. If they did, if they really believed that we were just a few weeks or months away from annihilation of 99.9% of the planet's human population, it would dominate their conversations. Instead, for the most part, pre-meeting, post-meeting, and social-situation conversations revolve on anything and everything other than "spiritual topics".

  As time goes on, and we get more and more removed from the 1995 "new light" that tied Armageddon to a human generation within the year 1914, I think we will see more and more JWs paying lip service to what the WT teaches, but privately getting on with their lives.
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  Marvin Shilmer

  Hello, Sir82

  Thanks for your reply.

  I agree that an observation of conversation and actions of Jehovah’s Witnesses is a means to determine the range of convictions held by the populace of Jehovah’s Witnesses in terms of core tenets of faith. However, in this case, what do you see as a means of compiling this data on a scale sufficient to form reliable conclusions?

  Marvin Shilmer
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  jgnat

  I think AlanF narrowed it down the best. A faithful JW must believe everything the Faithful and Discreet Slave says. Alan has pointed out that if the FDS said tomorrow that Jerusalem fell in 286BC, WWII didn't happen, Paradise is here, and we now accept the Trinity as Field Service, Meeting Attendance, and Study, every faithful JW would have to toe the line. NO DOCTRINE of the WTBTS is sacrosanct aside from fully trusting the FDS.

  On the other hand, I think that each JW has a key doctrine or trigger that keeps them captivated. For my hubby, I am sure it is the hope of Paradise and seeing his mother again. For others, it might be an anti-Trinitarian bias. I think we picked up a Christadelphian on the board this week, who is convinced that taking blood is poison itself. The WTBTS does have a fascinating combination of exotic beliefs that can appeal to all sorts of fringe personalities.

  Orthodox Christianity by comparison, has a core set of doctrines, the Nicene Creed. I don't see a similar core set with the JW's. Instead they have the couple hundred baptismal questions, that cover topics as wide-ranging as hygiene, family values, and the nature of Jehovah.
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  james_woods

  Maybe if you could form a sort of "network" of faders who are still current attendees, you could ask them to do a little "sample study"...i.e. - informally asking stuff like:

  "Did you go along readily with the Generation Teaching (notice that it does not ask if you agree with it...). Did you kind of have a feeling that this would eventually have to be done?, etc..."

  Maybe this could be done for the really core things like blood, armageddon, 1975, NGO, etc.

  The precaution would have to be made not to do this very obviously or all at once. The data seekers would have to use judgement to get a reality cross section; not just hardliners, liberals, other faders, elders, etc...

  Obviously, such a thing would have to be carefully constructed according to rules of statistical survey to have any validity. Maybe there is someone here on the board with a good statistical background...I think I know of at least one.

  Then it would be up to those brave volunteer faders.

  James
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  sir82

  Never really thought about it before.

  One way that occurs to me (if JWs were not so secretive and paranoid) would be to somehow construct a large enough population of JWs to be able to form a random sample. Then you could poll that random sample, and extrapolate results.

  However, given that being paranoid and secretive and not ever daring to give your true opinion, if it happens to conflict with official doctrine, goes hand-in-glove with being a JW, that is not a realistic method.

  Given the paranoia of voicing any deep concern to any "insider", and the near-manaical belief that the image one must present to "outsiders" is one of a blissful "spiritual paradise", getting straight answers to any question would be exceedingly difficult for anyone.

  Perhaps if there were enough insider "secret apostates" in enough locations within the congregations, and their efforts were coordinated, enough observations could be done to summarize something. You would need to coordinate well--what information to look for, how to go about it, making sure a good cross-section of JW demographics was covered, etc.

  This idea has occurred to me: If the Society were "smart" (something I don't foresee happening any time soon), they would proclaim some sort of "general amnesty day". They would encourage any and all to voice whatever fears, concerns, quibbles, whatever, on that day, with no fear of repercussions. Then, with that more or less accurate barometer of where their deepest problems are, they could go about fixing them.

  But I don't think the Society really wants to know. The cynical side of me says they don't even care.
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  sir82

  james_woods,

  Great minds think alike!
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  under_believer

  Completely echo everything sir82 said. A very astute analysis. I know that in my congregation, an elder™ encouraged me to get a vasectomy, even though it is forbidden by the Society™ in a recent Questions From Readers™ article. Some honesthearted Witnesses™ I know recognize and are bothered by this situation and really yearn for the old days of strong belief.
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  TheListener

  You can tell what is on their mind just like any other individual. By their conversations and actions.

  This is only anecdotal evidence to be sure, but I have seen firsthand that many witnesses have fallen into the rut of just believing that it's the truth along with meeting attendance and some service time is enough.

  There doesn't seem to be the thirst for deep study by the majority of witnesses. In decades gone by deep study was thrilling and enjoyable. Perhaps because we were all on the verge of the new system. Now, many witnesses are in a humdrum life and just living each day waiting for the new system but not be fully convinced that it truly is around the corner.

  I guess one piece of hard evidence of this would be the multiple announcements for attendance applications to the international DCs to be held this year. They had to announce and ask for applications at least 3 times and each time they had to lower the qualifications required to apply. In decades past the friends beat down the doors to get those applications. The cache alone of attending an international convention made one a mini-celebrity in the local congregation. Now, it passes with little mention.
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  TheListener

  I feel there is a lot of the "I can do it if I keep it quiet" attitude around. Mostly for things that aren't gross sins, of course.

  Look at organ transplants. Honestly they are a conscience matter. Something that should be weighed very carefully and an individual decision should be made based on how it will affect our relationship with Jehovah. In reality it has become completely acceptable and 99% of witnesses wouldn't think of it as a conscience matter but just an acceptable thing to do.

  When the sheep are allowed to stretch their legs without getting them cut off they will do so. With each stretch comes greater mobility and desire.