I'm on the side that says there is no problem with the translation of substitute . Not that anyone can substitute for the ransom sacrifice but for purposes of teaching and preaching about the kingdom , since christ doesn't do it anymore . Same as when he said anyone doing things unto his brothers has also done it unto him , it's kinda the same as the arrangement between God and christ where as anyone having seen the son had also seen the father . Jesus was the ambassodor of the kingdom in his earthly ministry and educated the apostles on how to be one . Then he commanded them to go forth and teach all the things they had learned to all the world . I think jesus himself was a way more down to earth figure than most people believe . I don't think by saying substitute the apostles meant they were the christ but they clearly believed that the only way to salvation was by listening to and obeying them.
NWT 2 Corinthians 5:20
by TheListener 23 Replies latest watchtower bible
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AuldSoul
Not intending to sidetrack the discussion—since it is directly related to 2 Corinthians 5:20 hopefully it won't viewed as a sidetrack—what is and Ambassador if not someone who speaks for a ruler/nation in absentia? Whether or not "substituting" should have technically been included for proper translation, I believe that in this case the original meaning of the text is not damaged by its inclusion. An ambassador does substitute, that is the function of an ambassador, so while it may have been an overtranslation it seems an innocuous one in this instance.
Also, I don't think they use this Scripture to distinguish between classes, they can't. They use incorrect interpretations of other Scriptures to force meaning into this text that the text not only does not allow for, but precludes by its objective.
This is its objective: They are begging, "Become reconciled to God." This is something for which only non-Christians would need to be begged. Once someone is reconciled to God they themselves become ambassadors. Christians—all Christians—are ambassadors. Scripturally, earth is no longer home and we are on foreign soil—alien residents.
At least, I have found nothing to sway me from this viewpoint as of yet. As an aside, I appreciate the fact that the reconciliation (Romans; Acts 2; 17; 2 Peter 3:8-10) is reemphasized as the focal point of the message. It seems that whatever stripe a Christian was (Pauline, Johannine, etc.) there was a constant thread which commenced with reconciliation as a primary component from which all else (doctrinal squabbles) branched off. The basis seems to have been reconciliation.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul -
Jerry1
The Law Covenant, of which Moses was the Mediator, and which was given at Mount Sinai amid the thunderings and
Iightnings and voices, etc., was typical of the New Covenant of which Christ (Head and body) is the Mediator, and which
Is to be introduced to the world of mankind after the whole bodv of Christ has shed its blood and been completed and
glorified. Acts 3 :22 ; Col. 1 :24.
This is from the Watchtower 1900 page 2709 (reprints) and shows that Russell believed that he was part of the
mediator and not just an agent.
It has been repeatedly said that the church, that is, the glorified members of the body of
Christ, by reason of their sacrifice, have a part the sin offering.; and in support of that theory
the following scripture is offered: "Then shall kill the goat of the sin offering, that is for
the people, and bring his blood within the vail, and do with that blood as he did with the blood
the bullock, and sprinkle it upon the mercy seat, and before the mercy seat."-Leviticus16 : 15.
Neither the foregoing nor any other scripture sustains the conclusion that the body mem-
bers of Christ have any part in the sin offering.It is the lifeblood of the man Jesus alone that
that is the valuable thing, the purchase price and which is presented and paid over as a sin
offering.
This is from the book "Salvation" page 197 where Rutherford only refuted the most blatant aspect of the
"Christ head and body" doctrine.
Even though today they would not say they shed their own blood for the sin of mankind at Calvary they still
are the Mediator ( Christ ).
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Rooster
If they are sub-ing for Christ then why does he need ro return? Follow me on this for a moment.
In 1914 Christ viewed all the worlde religions and found only the Witnesses doing the right thing. We all know that very little of what they believed then is still taught today. So they, the subs, improved Gods message, and therefore don't need Christ.
What a bunch of arrogant asses.
This is right on!!! The ruler of this system was the spirit behind this organization’s start. Teachings of Pyramids and that God was behind their construction so they could be His great stone witness.