Elder says no to congregation picnic: Brooklyn says no large gatherings

by truthseeker 36 Replies latest jw friends

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  truthseeker

  Our congregation has really gone down in recent months. The friends don't talk to each other, there have been many disfellowshippings and JC's.

  An elder I was talking to in the KH after the meeting says that "he and the other elders would like to have a congregation picnic but can't because Bethel disapproves of large social gatherings."

  I looked at this elder and felt sorry for him - it was like hearing a child cry because mother wouldn't let him outside to play baseball.

  The cong. I am in has 8 elders and 4 MS's. Are you really telling me that 12 men with oversight cannot look after a congregation made up mostly of middle aged and older ones?

  This cong. is not known for providing alcohol at other rare functions, so I don't think anyone will get drunk at this gathering, were it to ever happen.

  Another elder I spoke to said the reasoning against large social gatherings was that if an accident happened, a brother or sister could sue the Society for damages to pay for their health care because they wouldn't be able to afford it. He then said that KH's have their own insurance.

  Which do you think is the MOST likely reason for discouraging large gatherings - uncontrollable crowds or sueing the Society?

  Have you ever known a witness sue the soicety because of an accident at a social gathering?

  I find it sad that this elder would rather obey mother than see his congregation built up by love and association - not that a picnic would cure the congs. social ills anyway.
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  luna2

  If they are worried about lawsuits, they could have everyone sign a waver. I believe men who participate in church sponsered softball leagues do that.

  I agree with you that that number of men should be sufficient to chaperone a bunch of families eating food, talking and playing non-competitive sports. If they are that worried about people behaving, they can forbid alcohol and end the stupid thing before it gets dark.

  Typical dub foolishness that they kill anything remotely unifying and enjoyable. I'm sorry, but private gatherings aren't the same thing as not everyone gets an invitation.
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  Elsewhere

  Which do you think is the MOST likely reason for discouraging large gatherings - uncontrollable crowds or suing the Society?

  Both!

  Lawsuit = Lost money. The Watchtower Society would NEVER do anything to jeopardize the size of their bank accounts!

  The Watchtower Society is not like most other churches which encourage social gatherings. The goals of the Watchtower Society are to sell accept donations for their publications and to indoctrinate teach as many people as possible. Having a party does not facilitate either objective.

  Regarding the uncontrollable crowds... the Watchtower Society is absolutely PARRANOID about presenting a "pretty" image to everyone who is not a Jehover's Witness ( Matt 23:25-26) . When Jehover's Witnesses get together in a large "party" environment they tend to show their true colors, which could hurt sales their preaching work.
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  looking_glass

  First of all it cannot be due to lawsuits. Considering a congo picnic would not be a WTBTS sponsored event, like an assembly or mtgs, I cannot imagine that the WTBTS would use this as an excuse. Then they should stop having assemblies for that reason as well. Considering the WTBTS has avoided any link w/ people who have sued their congo and/or elders due to knowledge of a known molester based on the theory that they had no knowledge of it, I cannot imagine they would hang their hats on the lawsuit claim.

  Years ago when the hall I grew up in use to have them and then stopped, we were told it was because the gatherings got out of hand and people started going off and hooking up (obviously not a term yet in the 80's, but you know what I mean). I think it might have happened once over the 10 years the congo picnics were held, but hell why not blame it on that!

  Personally, I always felt it was a control issue. The WTBTS did not have absolute control over it. The elders were not in absolute control over it. So that means people are doing things without structure and will turn to worshiping the golden calf.
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  XJW4EVR

  This was my biggest gripe. Anything other than meetings, field service or private WT studies were good. Anything else was bad.

  Things that were discouraged in my Hell: attending any high school sporting event, congregation softball & volleyball games, day trips to the river, day trips to the mountains, overnight camping trips.

  The sad thing was that my family never had non-elder or MS families over for get togethers. This seemed to fortify the elite clique status of the elders & their families.
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  orangefatcat

  It goes to show you that they are definetly a CULT, its do as we say or nothing. No fun, no games, no parties, no ballgames, or horseshoes. Elsewhere your right.
  No wonder so many JWs are miserable. They are constantly scrutnized under a mircoscope no matter what they do . I spy game.. sick puppies.!! Don't witnesses get fed up with the constant no you can't do this or you can't do that. I would be more of a basket case then I am right now.
  I hate the friggin Governing Body and all the organizaiton. They are dictators . The people are robots and yesbots. Is it okay to go to a movie anymore? Or a bar? Or have family gathering.? God they have no idea how to live. The Christians in the first centruy were great, they celebrated live to its fullest and had love feasts I bet that was agreat get together. But not much is written about love feasts.
  Brooklyn will soon need a shovel to clean up the debree that falls down around them . Orangefatcat

  here is an article from the it 2.2 1988 regarding "Love Feasts"

  LOVE FEASTS

  The Bible does not describe these love feasts nor does it indicate how often they were held. (Jude 12) They were not commanded by the Lord Jesus Christ or his apostles, and it is apparent that they are not to be considered mandatory or permanent. Some say they were occasions when materially prosperous Christians held banquets to which their poor fellow believers were invited. Together, the fatherless, the widows, the rich, and the less fortunate shared a bountiful table in a spirit of brotherhood.

  Tertullian, a writer of the second and third centuries, gives a description of the love feasts, recounting that the participants, before reclining to eat, offered prayer to God. They would eat and drink with moderation, only enough to satisfy hunger and thirst, remembering that even during the night they must worship God. Their conversation was as those who knew that the Lord was listening. Each sang a song, and the feast closed with prayer.—Apology, XXXIX, 16-18.

  That these feasts were originally held with good intent is indicated by the word used to describe them—a·ga´pe. A·ga´pe is the Greek word used for the highest form of love, love based on principle. It is the kind of love that the Bible says "God is." (1Jo 4:8) It is listed as a fruit of the spirit at Galatians 5:22 and is described at length in 1 Corinthians 13:4-7. Not the Lord’s Evening Meal. There does not appear to be any basis for connecting such love feasts with the Lord’s Evening Meal (Memorial), as some have done, saying that the love feasts took place either before or after the observance of the Memorial. The Lord’s Evening Meal is an anniversary taking place yearly on the same day, the 14th day of the lunar month Nisan, whereas the love feasts seem to have taken place often and not necessarily on a regular schedule. After condemning abuses that arose in connection with bringing their suppers to the place where the Lord’s Evening Meal was to be celebrated, Paul wrote: "Certainly you do have houses for eating and drinking, do you not? . . . If anyone is hungry, let him eat at home." (1Co 11:22, 34) This was an evening to be observed with seriousness and meditation on its significance and not an occasion for eating and drinking at the meeting place.

  Neither are these love feasts the same as the "taking of meals" ("breaking of bread," KJ) mentioned at Acts 2:42, 46; 20:7. Bread in those times was usually made in thin cakes. Unleavened bread would be crisp as well. Bread was not cut, but broken, which gave rise to the phrase "breaking bread," with reference oftentimes to the partaking of an ordinary meal.—Ac 2:46, KJ, compare NW.

  Misused by Some. As a literal meal, love feasts became subject to various abuses by those who did not have the proper spiritual outlook. Since they were not commanded by the Lord Jesus Christ or by his apostles but were only a custom, they were later discontinued. Jude’s words indicate that some associated on these occasions with bad motives: "These are the rocks hidden below water in your love feasts while they feast with you, shepherds that feed themselves without fear." (Jude 12) Peter indicates the infiltration of evildoers and those teaching false doctrine among true Christians, saying: "They consider luxurious living in the daytime a pleasure. They are spots and blemishes, indulging with unrestrained delight in their deceptive teachings while feasting together with you." (2Pe 2:13) While Christians up to and including the present time have continued to have pleasurable fellowship and have helped one another materially as far as it is within their power, there is no basis for the revival of love feasts as a custom in the Christian congregation.—Jas 1:27; 2:15.
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  Seeker4

  Back in the 80s was when the Society began to clamp down on "large gatherings" anything more than a handful of people. Before that, I used to organize parties for my congregation where we'd use a school cafeteria and have food, a talent show, all sorts of fun stuff. There's none of that now, and hasn't been for a couple of decades. The direction given was to watch the illustrations in the magazines to see what types of gatherings the Society approved of. I even knew brothers who would count the number of people at a gathering as presented in an Awake! illustration, and use that as sort of an unwritten rule about what constituted and appropriate congregation gathering. Pathetic.

  I agree that it is most likely a control issue. The WTS seems to have a morbid view that given just a tiny bit of opportunity, the friends are going to be dropping trousers and bopping one another with complete abandon. It's a sad lack of faith in the average publisher.

  I also agree that it's a very cult-like aspect of the Witnesses.

  S4
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  looking_glass

  Not all JWs followed the WTBTS on the gathering things. My mother threw parties for us all the time. We would rent out a rec hall at a local park. The elders tried to say something, but she said "show me in the bible and I will follow otherwise go pound sand" What is funny was that I think it was more the elders saying ... okay we have to tell her that she should not have large gathers to cover our butts from the Society's wrath ... Because those same elders came to the parties, ate our food and drank our pop. I always wondered if they were to be called on the carpet if they would say that they went to make sure that nothing bad was happening or that we were not giving a bad witness.

  But truthfully, my first kiss was at one of these gatherings. I am sure that would just prove to the WTBTS point that it is all the S&G they thought it was.
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  Bumble Bee

  We used to have congregation parties, we'd rent the community hall, have a potluck, dance, play musical chairs etc, play cards, have skits etc. It was great.

  When I was a teenager, we'd have parties in a school gym, potluck, dancing etc. This is were I met my hubby.

  The more you oppress a group of people, the more they will rebel. Maybe this is a good thing. People have to have an outlet, if they don't get it with the cong, they'll look elsewhere.

  BB
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  Darth Yhwh

  Bethel disapproves of large social gatherings."

  If this were completely true then there wouldnt be any meetings now would there.

  I agree that it is most likely a control issue. The WTS seems to have a morbid view that given just a tiny bit of opportunity, the friends are going to be dropping trousers and bopping one another with complete abandon. It's a sad lack of faith in the average publisher

  Well said Seeker4. Bottom line is that if the WTBS doesn't control the itinerary they dont approve of the event. The poor misguided sheep would shurely develope critical thinking ability if left to their own devices.