by Simon 50 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Well, Simon, who decides? Good point.
We can recognize a dangerous cult in the form of North Korea. That becomes a matter of national defense.
We regulate deceptive business practices like multi-level marketing and Ponzi schemes. Even monopolies are recognized as unfair.
But, it it doesn't involve defense or business, we can't seem to find the political will to do anything about it.
When you claim to speak for God, and threaten people with death from said "GOD", that's serious. The poor people who believe it are genuinely scared. Those who play on that fear are abusive.
I don't see why it wouldn't constitute hate-speech, just as labeling dissenters as "mentally diseased" people who deserve eternal death. In fact it's very similar because if you are executed by Jeehoobie at the big A, you are not resurrected. So in effect, they are being threatened with eternal death.
DD
Tight pants placed nicely to one side (thank you Simon for your nice writing on this), the old line about JWs not being a religion but a cult is a convenient way to criminalize their belief system and have them regulated as a danger and who know where that will stop?
Besides, if JWs are a cult, so too are Mormons, Christadelphians, 7th-Day Adventists and assorted Pentecostal and fundamentalist groups. Wow man!
That's potentially multiple millions of people branded as cultists and stripped of the religious rights of worship accorded to fellow citizens.
Religious freedom is one thing, breaking laws and harming others ( child abuse, decapitations, ect.) has to be stopped by responsible members of society.
I personally don't care what someone believe or does in private, but something has to be done about extremists.
DD
I do agree we are entitled to a belief but we are also not to be sheltered from ridicule from such belief especially when we have become a figure of public attention.
That is the point I was making.
Just to be clear: I am not saying that the WTS view of modest clothing doesn't warrant some ridicule and exposure. But is far from the smoking gun of hate speech or proof-of-cult that some want to promote it as. It is simply a conservative christian outlook on dress and, hardly unique even in society at large. When it comes to any sort of campaigning or activism, we need to be wary of assuming that other people will see things through our own prejudices which is why I think some "overdo it" for that particular issue.
The particular point I was using that as an example of is that they are free to have that belief and we are free to ridicule that belief ... in our own space.
If we value freedom and freedom of speech we have to grant these things to others, even when we may disagree with the beliefs <- that's the challenging part that most people have a problem with.
Freedom is "easy" if you assume you will be the one who gets to decide what should and shouldn't be allowed.
Religious freedom is one thing, breaking laws and harming others ( child abuse, decapitations, ect.) has to be stopped by responsible members of society.
Yes, and that is where authorities can and do step in and the legal system can hold them to account as we're now seeing. But trying to prescribe what can be believed or what beliefs make them a cult vs a normal religion? Tough.
I think all religions are cults. I hate them all and think they are full of brain-dead, zombie, needy people. I like being able to say that and am glad that I have that freedom.
The owners of the site get to decide what is and isn’t acceptable on their site.
And what some posters fail to appreciate is that they are guests.
In the USA, the media enjoys "freedom of the press" which more or less protects newspapers from suits for what they publish sort of speak. Many years ago, the wt won a major battle for freedom of speech in the US Supreme Court which established a president allowing the dissemination of information no mater how controversial or objectionable the information, with the exclusion that people should not have to feel unsafe in their homes. A grand victory for freedom of expression enjoyed by everyone in the USA.
However, in the USA, Internet sites do not enjoy the same kind of freedom that the Media does. This means that the owner of a site is vulnerable. And that is why posters need to understand that there is a difference between freedom of the press and posting something on the internet. The internet is not the media.
Besides, if JWs are a cult, so too are Mormons, Christadelphians, 7th-Day Adventists and assorted Pentecostal and fundamentalist groups. Wow man!
That's potentially multiple millions of people branded as cultists and stripped of the religious rights of worship accorded to fellow citizens.
Yes, it's impossible to legislate against such a large group based on such vague "crimes" when they probably make up one of the lowest-crime demographics in the country.
Really, they once said some people were "mentally diseased"? Y'know what - I think they were actually right about some people! All they would have to do is find one nutcase who's ranted about something and "case dismissed".
This is why trying to make such a big issue of such trivialities is so crazy. People go off to get petitions to get the US to bomb them with drone strikes over alleged human rights abuses ...
It's just pie in the sky.
Yes, we would love the WTS to crumble or be dismantled. But it simply isn't going to happen anytime soon.
Overall religion will hopefully continue to fade but it's going to fade and not disappear with a firework display of our own making however much we might dream of it.
I'm sure that deep down most people can agree with you on your basic points about freedom, but it is the nuances that many will have trouble with.
I agree, it's not "rah rah" and upbeat but I think it's important to be honest with ourselves. It's something I've thought about for a long time - kind of "how to be mentally balanced after leaving the WTS".
I've seen the anger and desire for retribution eat people up and do them no good. You see them spiraling into more extreme behavior. If you decide that "success" is going to be "bringing the WTS down" then I believe you are in for a lifetime of disappointment because it simply isn't going to happen.
I will be the first at the polling booth should there ever be the "vote to ban religion" but wishing it won't make it happen.
That doesn't mean there isn't a lot we can do to raise awareness to prevent people falling for their lives and help people to exit successfully. Knowing the reality may help us focus our message and efforts a little better so that we don't squander our limited time and energy though.
