John 8:3-11

Zico

3The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group 4and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. 5In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" 6They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him.

But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. 7When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." 8Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground.

9At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. 10Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?"

11"No one, sir," she said.
"Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."

I read this scripture during the meeting last night (I now spend the meetings just reading my bible) and it made me think of the Society teachings. If a baptised woman was caught in the act of adultery, she would be taken to the elders about it. Whilst she wouldn't be stoned, she would likely be disfellowshipped. In the above example, Jesus just gave her simple loving council, which would no doubt have helped her more than telling the apostles and pharisees to shun her.

I can't believe I never seen the obvious flaws in the religion before being directed to this site, how can a religious organisation that teaches us to imitate Jesus, also teach us to shun people who do wrong?

merfi

This scripture really affects me. I went through a JC for "adultery/fornication" (too long and painful to re-write here, but it's in my newbie post) and when I found the scripture some time after, my jaw dropped. Agreed -- how can the "loving, Christian" religion JW profess themselves to be, not imitate Jesus' example here.

I'd love to quote this back at the elders who were on my JC. However, since they didn't follow this, but instead ripped my heart and soul out for four hours, they effectively took my blinders off and chased me out. So for that, I do thank them for my freedom... As well, it's not worth my time or the ink to write it to them.

Many of those that I've told my JC/DA etc story to know this scrip, and the JW not following it have made many of my friends and family just that more determined to slam the door in their faces.

~merfi

M.J.

The WTS doesn't acknowledge this passage as genuine:

***

it-2 p. 94 John, Good News According to ***

The

Spurious Passage at John 7:53–8:11. These 12 verses have obviously been added to the original text of John’s Gospel. They are not found in the Sinaitic Manuscript or the Vatican Manuscript No. 1209, though they do appear in the sixth-century Codex Bezae and later Greek manuscripts. They are omitted, however, by most of the early versions. It is evident that they are not part of John’s Gospel. One group of Greek manuscripts places this passage at the end of John’s Gospel; another group puts it after Luke 21:38, supporting the conclusion that it is a spurious and uninspired text.

peacefulpete

The episode is a very ancient story, if in fact it was inserted into John (like a great deal of other material) it appears to have been from the Gospel of the Hebrews which was likely related to G.Matthew. check out: Text Critical Notes

Leolaia

A version of this story apparently was included in Papias of Hierapolis' lost work (c. AD 140), and since Papias had a connection with the Johannine community in Ephesus and possibly with the Gospel of John as well (one later legend makes him the scribe who actually wrote the gospel on behalf of the evangelist), there is a possibility that the interpolation in John 8 originated with Papias. Also one of the manuscripts of Mark attributes the Pseudo-Mark interpolation in Mark 16:9-20 to Presbyter Aristion, mentioned by Papias as one of his primary sources of information (in addition to Presbyter John and the daughters of Philip). Quite evidently there were all sorts of fragments of Jesuine tradition floating around by oral transmission and agrapha which ended up as accretions to the intracanonical tradition in various places.

Leolaia

BTW, it is one of my favorite Jesus pericopes as well. Though it did not originate in the intracanonical tradition, it is certainly something most of us would envision Jesus saying. Despite its questionable provenance, it is a story that made quite an impression on the early Fathers.

MidwichCuckoo

"If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her."

Wonder what would have happened if Jesus had said that inside a Kingdom Hall?

Honesty

I can't believe I never seen the obvious flaws in the religion before being directed to this site, how can a religious organisation that teaches us to imitate Jesus, also teach us to shun people who do wrong? Zico

Because they themwselves don't imitate Jesus. They prove by their actions that they do not know Him.

Carmel

Well, since the JWs resort to the letters of Paul as their justification for DFing, and Paul's letters certainly did not carry the weight of the "acts of Our lord" then they are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Be Pauline or be Christ-ian! Choice is clear to me.

carmel

lovelylil

peacefulpete,

in your response you state that the incident of the women who committed adultery was inserted into John like a great deal of other material, what is the great deal of other material, and would you mind giving me examples of this?

I only ask because you make many statements like this in your posts but don't give any examples. Is this your opinion, did you read it somewhere, or can you give real examples?

I am not trying to be flip, I have heard that this verse is suspect and some bibles make reference to the fact that it is, but I have never heard that many suspect things were inserted into the book of John. Most bible scholars whose material I read, highly recomend the book of John as one of the best of the gospels.

IAs far as this particular verse - even though it is suspect, it does sound like something Jesus would do. He exemplified what it meant to show forgiveness and the posters here are correct to say that the attitudes of the elders in the KH does not even come close to how Jesus would respond. This account reminds me of when the "sinful women" sat and wept at Jesus feet while washing his feet with her tears, perfume and her hair. I heard bible scholars say before that this women could be the one John wrote about and that she did this act of worship and kindness to the Lord for forgiving her of her sins and preventing her stoning.

Since the bible writers all had different styles of writing and some included more details to a particular event then others, I don't think that it would be suspect at all to have something that John wrote and the others did not include in their gospel. It is certainly plausable as the Parable of the Talents is not in all the gospel accounts either.

If it was added in later, I don't think we should assume that the person(s) who did it had a bad motive - as again, it certainly sounds like our Lord Jesus.

John 8:3-11

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