Absolute truths have been admitted.... (page 9)

Shining One

>are violated by the God of the Bible - if he defines the absolutes of morality these are not absolutes...
HB

God defines moral law for the creation He called into existence; God is the ultimate judge and arbiter; God defines the length of the created beings days; God has every right to carry out His judgements; God defines mercy and grace, offers a way to eternal life that involved Him taking the full penalty for OUR sin.
Absolutely none of this counters my arguments in the defining post of this thread.
Rex

Shining One

Look at my latest post to Dan the Man, see if you can figure it out.
Rex

DanTheMan

Libs favor socialism first, then into communism and finally to the Gulag for anyone that they find dissent from the part line.

But doesn't an eternity in hellfire await these horrible Libs? Again, in light of your professed religious beliefs, your deep animosity makes no sense whatsoever.

daniel-p

"Libs favor socialism first, then into communism and finally to the Gulag for anyone that they find dissent from the part line."

You disqualify yourself from inteligent communication with this single statement. Do you realise no one takes you seriously and sees you as not much more than a pest/troll? Yet you can take pride in one thing... the fact that we post messages in your threads. Congratulations, you have escaped from obscurity into a world of delusional heroism.

Hellrider

Press any key:

when a pedophile kidnaps, rapes and murders a child, he just had some "different views" on what acceptable behaviour. To bad for the kids parents, but hey, that`s not his problem, as long as he doesn`t have to hear them cry. He did no wrong, because nothing is wrong
I think he did wrong. However I think this not because I compare his behaviour to some absolute moral, but I compare it to the behaviour I expect of myself and the behaviour I expect from others.
The choice with morals is not absolute or nothing. Morals exist but they are relative, relative to the way we ourselves feel.

Ok, you compare it to the behaviour you expect from yourself and others. So do I. That means that you too probably believe in Kants "golden rule", "never do something towards others that you would not want them to do to you". But you would not call this rule a moral absolute, of course (well, if you don`t consider it a moral absolute, then I can`t see how you can expect this behaviour from others as, of course, but that`s a whole diferrent story). But there are a couple of things wrong with your above statement, within the non-absolutist view on morals: - The behaviour you expect from yourself and from others, is expectations that can be changed. Let`s say that we all try to take a bit more control over our emotions (after all, within the non-absolutist view on morals, "moral outrage" is nothing more than antipathy/sympathy), and change them (which you yourself refer to in your post). Numb down the sympathy/antipathy, after all, it`s not "real morals", it`s just a feeling. Concerning pedophiles, we could then for example breed babies for them, babies just for "their purpose". That way, no parents would have to lose their children to pedos. Also, we would save a lot of money in police and court system-efforts by not criminalising them anymore. Good solution, don`t you think? And what about Africa? Every once in a while, images from hunger-disasters roll over our TV-screens. Watching starving, dying children make us feel sick and (morally?) outraged. But wait, numb down that feeling! And then realize that Africa can`t be fixed! It is is such a sick continent, sick with hunger, corruption, aids, illiteracy, de-forestation and all sorts of diseases. It can all be fixed with euthanasia, you know. Just a few nukes, or maybe a special-designed biological weapon. Wipe them out. Feeling bad? Numb down that feeling! It will go away...

And don`t worry: I`m not here defending Rex. I certainly don`t agree with everything he says, as I sometimes think he goes a bit to far. We just agree on the fact that there is such a thing as moral absolutes, that`s all.

daniel-p:

"Libs favor socialism first, then into communism and finally to the Gulag for anyone that they find dissent from the part line." You disqualify yourself from inteligent communication with this single statement. Do you realise no one takes you seriously and sees you as not much more than a pest/troll? Yet you can take pride in one thing... the fact that we post messages in your threads. Congratulations, you have escaped from obscurity into a world of delusional heroism.

Why? You are morally outraged now? Why? Because what he said was discriminating towards you and a whole group of people! So, in my view, he broke a moral absolute. But don`t worry, within your own view, he did nothing wrong! So you can cool down on the outrage.

DanTheMan

[10] As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: [23] For all have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; (Rom 3:10, 23 KJV)

[23] For the wages of sin [is] death; but the gift of God [is] eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. (Rom 6:23 KJV)

[3] Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. [5] Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and [of] the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. [16] For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. (Jhn 3:3, 5, 16 KJV)

[8] For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: [it is] the gift of God: [9] Not of works, lest any man should boast. [10] For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them. (Eph 2:8-10 KJV)

Reference in line [1Corinthians 5:15;], which contains in some form [1Cr 5:15], is a bad reference!

[9] That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. [10] For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. [11] For the scripture saith, Whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. [13] For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. (Rom 10:9-11, 13 KJV)

[18] He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. (Jhn 3:18 KJV)

[20] Jesus answered him, I spake openly to the world; I ever taught in the synagogue, and in the temple, whither the Jews always resort; and in secret have I said nothing. (Jhn 18:20 KJV)

There is no list of moral absolutes in the verses cited here, I can't even find a single one - ?? Is this a joke or something?

jgnat

I think Rex is getting closer to the heart of his moral code with this:

God defines moral law for the creation He called into existence; God is the ultimate judge and arbiter; God defines the length of the created beings days; God has every right to carry out His judgements; God defines mercy and grace

In other words, my tentative list is invalidated because in Rex's world view, the absolute morality is,

"God makes all the rules"

But that is definitely not a universally held moral. I see Dan is struggling to locate the absolute morals in the texts you cited. Care to try for another one, Rex?

daniel-p

"Because what he said was discriminating towards you and a whole group of people! So, in my view, he broke a moral absolute. But don`t worry, within your own view, he did nothing wrong! So you can cool down on the outrage."

Hellrider, I am not a liberal. His comment was not "discriminating," it was just really, really stupid.

Shining One

I am telling you what the Bible teaches, Dan. Your problem is with God, not me. What you or I think doesn't matter. That's the reality of it. Quit whining.
Rex

Shining One

>There is no list of moral absolutes in the verses cited here, I can't even find a single one - ?? Is this a joke or something?

You asked about avoiding Hell. I showed you some scripture that affects that. If you can't make the connection then so be it...
Rex

Absolute truths have been admitted....

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