"Mom, I hate the Kingdom Hall"

by Esmeralda 14 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Esmeralda

  "I wish I didn't ever have to go there again. I think that they are making all this stuff up."

  This is the breakfast conversation that I had with my five year old daughter this morning.

  "Oh, really?" I said, trying not to choke on my coffee.

  "Mom, what if I get disfellowshipped someday? Then Dad won't talk to me."

  "Why are you worried about that?"

  "Well because dad said when you get disfellowshipped, that you're not doing stuff Jehovah's way and so your family can't talk to you anymore."

  "You don't ever want that to happen to you?" I asked. She nodded, leaning forward and averting her eyes. Her dark hair covered her face.

  "You don't have to worry about that. If you don't get baptized, you won't be a Witness and they can't disfellowship you." I said. She looked confused.

  "But what if they just do it to me?"

  "Baptize you?"

  "Yeah."

  "They can't just do it to you, honey. You have to answer all kinds of questions with the elders. Believe me, they can't just sneak and do it to you. And you don't ever have to do it if you don't want to."

  "Mom, I just hate the meetings. I hate the Kingdom Hall. I wish I never had to go there again. Why can't Dad just be like you?"

  Round and around we went awhile longer, but it's plain to see that the child is suffering.

  "I hate going back and forth, Mom."

  "I know, but the only other choice would have been to have to do things Dad's way all the time, honey. Aren't you glad that at least most of the time you're here with us and you don't have to worry about this grown up stuff?"

  "It's too grown up. I'm just a kid."

  "I know, and I love you just the way you are."

  GRRRRRRRRRRRRRR. Sounds like my ex is doing a great job at inculcating the love of God into her, isn't he? HA!

  No kid should have to deal with this garbage...

  *sigh*
  essie
• 

  Billygoat

  Essie,

  At 5 years old?!?! How sad. I'm thankful she has you to balance it all out! Keep it up. You're right though. No child should have to deal with that - especially at HER age!

  Andi
• 

  FreePeace

  Hi Es!

  It really gets to me when I read or experience the type of conversations you had with your daughter. I have had similar conversations with my son. He is 15, and is quite angry at the WTS for what they have done.

  He too feels somewhat torn between his mother's love and all her Dub brain-sh*t. It is hard for a parent to take sometimes.

  Keep doing what you're doing, and your daughter will be fine. She very well may back away from her father as she gets older.

  I hope you are well!

  Doug

  "The World is my country, and to do good, my religion." --Thomas Paine

  Visit my Websites:
  TruthQuest: http://beam.to/truthquest

  Empower the Spirit: http://www.EmpowerTheSpirit.com
• 

  TR

  Essie,

  Methinks this could be classified as mental abuse. I assume you're divorced? Maybe the courts could take away parental rights from her dad? Unless you think that somehow it's good thing for your daughter to be with him.

  TR

  The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.
  —Edmund Burke
• 

  expatbrit

  I got a question: At what age can a child be classified as a "mature minor", able to make their own decisions as to this type of issue?

  Expatbrit
• 

  Esmeralda

  Hi All, thanks for your comments.

  Andi, thanks for supporting my belief that no five year old should have to deal with religious issues this way. I don't delude myself into thinking that JW's are the only ones who brainwash their children this way (I saw part of a children's show on the Catholic channel while I was surfing over the weekend...a teenager explaining to a group of young kids about confession. I swear the word "guilt" was used a dozen times in three minutes) but that doesn't make it any easier. My child is afraid that no matter what she does, someone will be unhappy. We just keep telling her that as long as she's herself, we'll love her. I hope it wins out in the end.

  Freepeace! I've been thinking of you! I have to click over to your site and catch up. I want to re-link it to mine, I think the url changed, yes? Your writing is excellent, and I know it helps a lot of people. I'm sorry your son is going through this. I'm sure with you beside him that in the end, he'll be okay...

  TR: I already talked to my lawyer about this. He told me that it's nearly impossible to get a joint custody arrangement overturned in this jurisdiction. He told me that he's even seen fathers who were abusive or drug addicted get slapped on the wrist; meaning temporary supervised visitation for a few months then back to normal. But I will tell you what I am going to do. I am going to once again, sit my ex down and tell him that he has to stop taking her to meetings two days in a row on the weekend. It's too much for a little one. She said to me this morning "I can't take it anymore."

  Those words should never come out of the mouth of a five year old. I am definitely going to have to come up with some adjustment in her schedule...

  Thanks for the support guys. It's helping me pick my chin up off the floor this morning.

  *hugs*
  essie

  edited to add:
  expatbrit: I asked my lawyer the same thing and he said that the fact that this is a 'free country' is exaggerated when it comes to children. That until they're older (I take him to mean 10-12, somewhere in there) that the court has no interest in what they have to say in this kind of case.

  I know, I know. Find a new lawyer. I'm trying to effect change without an all out war. I just realized this morning that I have got to bring this issue up again with my ex...*groan*

  And a p.s. to TR, I love the quote at the end of your posts, it's become one of my favorites now. I think of it often.
• 

  jurs

  Hi Essie,

  I am a mom too. Hugs to you. I wish I had some advice but I don't. Hang in there.
  Jurs
• 

  Stealth

  To Essie: Hello, good to meet you,

  This is heart breaking; I am going through the same situation with my children, who are several years older than your daughter is. My ex beats our children when they don't want to go to the meeting.

  You are doing the right thing by keeping the communication going.
  Unfortunately You have no way to control what goes on at her other home. Keep the love and understanding flowing with her and yourself and she will be alright.

  to: expatbrit
  

  I got a question: At what age can a child be classified as a "mature minor", able to make their own decisions as to this type of issue?

  Good question. I think that a child should at least be able to make that decision at the same age they can make a decision to get baptized into the religion. By JW standards that can be as young as 9 or 10. By this standard I think a child should be able to make a decision to not attend meetings having the same maturity level as one who decides to dedicate their life to the organization. However I also believe that children should obey the rules of their parent while living in their home. When my children expressed the desire to not go to meetings I asked them questions as to why, if they could give me a reasonable thought out answer, that was good enough for me. If they would say I DON'T KNOWWWWW to my question or just I’m tired, then I concluded that they had not used their reasoning ability to decide for themselves. Just my experience, I’m not saying it’s right or wrong I think it depends on the circumstances and maturity level of the children.

  Sometimes young children don't know what’s best for them. I have to force my children to wear sun block when they go out into the blazing sun all day. Should I let them make their own decision and get sun cancer?

  This may not be a good example here, but certainly this girls father believes he is doing what’s best for her.
• 

  Ray Skyhorse

  I'm really sorry about all the crap your daughter is going through right now. It really breaks my heart to read this stuff. Hugs to both of you.

  It sounds like you have good communication with your daughter. She sounds like a smart little kid. She already realizes that they are making stuff up. I wonder how she copes during the meetings? Do you think she sits there and daydreams or just looks around at everyone, bored stiff? Her situation reminds me of prisoners in solitary confinement. I've heard stories of prisoners who, in order to keep their sanity, construct houses brick by brick in their heads.

  You might encourage her to develop her skills at mental imagery (daydreaming)as a defense mechanism. Maybe she'll develop a good imagination as a result of this. I think you can help guide her at coping with her situation. Ask her what she thinks about during the meetings. Encourage her to discuss things that she thought about during the meeting.

  I'm a new dad and I hope my JW wife doesn't put our son through the ringer someday.

  Peace,
  Ray Skyhorse
• 

  HoChiMin

  Esmeralda,

  This is guilt trip brainwashing tactics to the hilt! When you here the words of a five year old worried about not being able to talk to her family in the name of the WT god it is sickening.

  >> "Well because dad said when you get disfellowshipped, that you're not doing stuff Jehovah's way and so your family can't talk to you anymore." <<

  It's good she has you to counteract, and run interference.

  HCM