Do You "Believe" In The Bible At All?

by minimus 74 Replies latest jw friends

  • Terry
    Terry

    In normal, ordinary everyday life we exercise a certain amount of rational common sense. If we didn't we would be dead by sunset.

    You can go through your whole life without a shred of actual correct information about a lot of things and not be at risk in the practical world.

    For instance, you can believe the world is flat and that the sun goes around the Earth. It won't make a bit of difference. You can believe the stars are pinprick holes in a crystal firmament and it means nada.

    But, when it comes to crossing the street, lighting a fire, taking medicine and cashing a check you need enough practical sense to get by.

    Superstitious people are of the opinion that ordinary practical everyday life needs more than correct information about "things" to be safe. You need a rabbit's foot, a horoscope, a ritual and a prayer. Fine with me.

    If I think numbers are magic and yet I can balance my checkbook; so what?

    Silly nonsense is silly nonsense. Live and let live.

    But, when it comes to religion we enter a valley of thorns and thistles.

    Living, as we do, in a world of things and practical necessity it becomes rather difficult to live much above a subsistance level if we don't have a bit more than basic information. A "higher" education is higher because it takes you above subsistance. You have to be able to negotiate with reality and make it work FOR YOU. The people who don't learn that hurl themselves against a brick wall expecting the wall to yield. Their bruises testify to their stupidity. But, they may call it persecution or testing.

    Yesterday at the boostore where I work a middle aged lady who kept praising Jesus in every other breath bought a basketfull of religous living books. She said she couldn't afford them and that she wouldn't have any money left---but---ready for this:

    "I am an heir! Praise Jesus!"

    And she spent her $74 and left with an armful of books I'd call "pep talk" nonsense.

    She "believed", oh she believed!

    The nature of such belief is detached from the practical world. To the extent our fluffy superstitons conflict with the practical world our life goes into the toilet.

    Ask yourself how many people are able to keep the balance. How many can hold ridiculous notions in their head that aren't true, but; which they believe anyway--but--who can STILL NEGOTIATE WITH REALITY without falling off the edge??

    I'd compare it to alcoholics who can drink and still put in 8 hours of work and not slur their sentences. The fact that they put everybody else at risk when they get behind the wheel we will ignore for the moment.

    Remember that analogy.

    Here is an aside from me to you: THERE ARE NO CONTRADICTIONS IN THE REAL WORLD. So, you put yourself at risk (sooner or later) when you hold contradictions in your head which don't match the real world.

    You'll see this among JW's when their child needs a blood transfusion and their "belief" lets the child die. You'll see it when the dad JW takes a lousy paying job and makes his wife stay home while their quality of life erodes.

    You are free to hold any outrageous thought in your head you wish to. But, life has a way of stepping on false views. Look at where you are, what you have and what your prospects are and ask yourself "how did I get here?" The answer is: by means of what your BELIEVE.

    There is an invisible guy in the sky who wishes us dead, but; who wants us to live? Okay

    He is LOVE, but; he sent his son to be tortured and murdered? Okay, why? So that he could change his mind about killing us. Right.

    Think what you want--it won't keep the mail from coming or the weeds from gnawing at your roses.

    Just don't expect me to join you.

  • stapler99
    stapler99

    The Bible may contain information of historical interest. For example Pontius Pilate, or King Belshazzar of Babylon were thought to be made up but later archeological evidence showed that they existed. Also it gives us knowlege about the language and culture of some ancient peoples.

    But there are also a lot of fabulous stories that there are no reason to believe. Do you believe in the creation account? If not do you believe in the Flood? Was Abraham a real person? If not was Moses a real person? Did he go up into a mountain and receive the Law from YHWH? The old testament contains precise geneologies which can be used to pinpoint the years of the events it talks about. Claiming that some parts are to be taken figuratively and others metaphorically leaves one with questions like, if Abraham existed, what about his father, or his grandfather, etc.

    If you discount all of the Old Testament to focus on the Gospels, then you are forgetting that the "proof" of Jesus's messiahship was to be found in the Hebrew scriptures. Jesus also referred to events in the Old Testament so if you accept the Gospels then you must also accept (some of) the Old Testament. But how can you tell what is "metaphorical" and what isn't? The Bible was written by men, not God.

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    The case of Belshazzar is particularly interesting. Yes, there was someone with that name, but was the description of him accurate as one would expect with a contemporaneous author?

  • Leolaia
    Leolaia

    How do we know what the Bible says is true? Here is Wonder Showzen's answer:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bP2b45tBiFw&search=bible%20brew

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Terry:

    Just don't expect me to join you.

    While I don't believe that was anyone elses' intent, might I ask if you're willing to reciprocate regarding your own expectations? Fwiw you seem to communicate your views with an evangelistic ardour...

    Trevor:

    I try to take my own advice and allow room for belief and change in myself and others.

    Likewise. It was one of the first lessons I learnt on leaving the WTS, and one that has helped enormously in adjusting to the real world. Of course, taking it to it's logical conclusion, that position could also be wrong and Terry might have it all completely right after all

  • trevor
    trevor

    Terry

    That was as always a very readable and enjoyable post. I have learned from reading your posts and learned to be more objective.

    You mention alcohol. Alcohol like belief helps us to step away from the full glare of reality now and then. This does no harm and can be beneficial if it kept under control. If it gets out of control then we can wreck our lives. Some people can live without that escape some can’t.

    I have some understanding of the weaknesses and indulgences of other as I have a few myself! That is why I temper the analytical side of myself with empathy because illusion is part of life’s pleasure. I could live without it but I prefer not to.

    I shall continue to enjoy your posts.

  • OpenFireGlass
    OpenFireGlass
    I have some understanding of the weaknesses and indulgences of other as I have a few myself! That is why I temper the analytical side of myself with empathy because illusion is part of life’s pleasure. I could live without it but I prefer not to.

    Amen

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    THERE ARE NO CONTRADICTIONS IN THE REAL WORLD.

    I was married for over twelve years. May I kindly assure you that your statement is false

    While I'm not personally all that big on illusion, I do accept that many folks enjoy it, and I'm not averse to a little occasional escapism.

    I prefer to keep the brushstrokes small, but each to their own.

  • Terry
    Terry
    I have some understanding of the weaknesses and indulgences of other as I have a few myself! That is why I temper the analytical side of myself with empathy because illusion is part of life’s pleasure. I could live without it but I prefer not to.

    Seems very sensible to me!

    THERE ARE NO CONTRADICTIONS IN THE REAL WORLD.

    I was married for over twelve years. ; May I kindly assure you that your statement is false

    Would you be so kind as to give me a primer on contradictions which exist in the real world? I'd appreciate it.

    Perhaps you mean contradictions in one's own mind with reality instead.

  • trevor
    trevor
    I prefer to keep the brushstrokes small, but each to their own.

    I have been married for 24 years - to the same woman. I use a broom

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