Comments You Will Not Hear at the 6-11-06 WT Study (SHEPHERDS 2)

by blondie 26 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Flash

  Paul ...encouraged fellow believers to become `imitators of him, even as he was of Christ.'-1 Corinthians 11:1.

  Thus diverting their attention from following Christ to following him. The GB / WTS does the same thing. They are TRUE disciples of Paul. They convince people they would be more Christian focusing on their teachings rather than on Christ's and all the personal freedom He and His sacrifice gives. Paul being an over-zealous Pharisee was all about RULES.

  So the elders "watch" the rank and file, the CO's watch the elders, the DO's watch the COs, and the GB watches these men. And who watches the GB?

  The Master, Christ Jesus and He will without fail honor His word.

  Matthew 24:48-51

  48 "But if ever that evil slave should say in his heart, 'My master is delaying,' (missed Armageddon dates) 49 and should start to beat his fellow slaves (lording it over) and should eat and drink with the confirmed drunkards, (UN / NGO and other wrong behavior) 50 the master of that slave will come on a day that he does not expect and in an hour that he does not know, 51 and will punish him with the greatest severity and will assign him his part with the hypocrites. There is where [his] weeping and the gnashing of [his] teeth will be."

  Luke 12: 45, 46

  45 "But if ever that slave should say in his heart, 'My master delays coming,' and should start to beat (endlessly overbearing and intrusive) the menservants and the maidservants, (other sheep / great crowd) and to eat and drink and get drunk, 46 the master of that slave will come on a day that he is not expecting [him] and in an hour that he does not know, and he will punish him with the greatest severity and assign him a part with the unfaithful ones.

  ---

  Blondie your detailed and well thought out WT Discections are an invaluable asset to everyone who wants to worship God and honor His Son correctly. May Jesus continue to help you and guide you.

  Flash
• 

  cathyk

  Just one small non-study-article-related question:

  Organized to Do Jehovah's Will.* (Footnote: * Published by Jehovah's Witnesses.) (The Watchtower Bible and Tract Society is no longer referenced as the publisher of their publications)

  http://www.reexamine.info/00s/organized_to_do_jehovahs_will.pdf

  My copy of Organized to Do Jehovah's Will still has the publisher listed as the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. Why aren't they using the same reference in their articles, I wonder?

  BTW, I'm not and never have been a JW. I just collect their literature.

  Cathy
• 

  heathen

  I'd like to see the part in the elder handbook where it says the elders get to harrass people over money all the time . It seemed like the hall I attended was always running short and then came the threats and guilt trips . That article makes it look like the WTBTS is completely ignorant what goes on in the typical kingdub hall . IMO they act like bullies alot of the time . It's gotta be a pretty crappy job but I'd like to know how come they don't offer to help people in the full time ministry with their daily needs . Never once have I seen an article that encouraged to share monitarily within the congregation . Usually it's about supporting the world wide work and sending money to headquarters but I think there are alot of needy people locally that could use some help .
• 

  A Paduan

  Let us discuss.......

  yeah right
• 

  rassillon

  ::Q16) How does the slave class train appointed men?
  
  ::16) How does the slave class provide this training? In the first century,
  
  ::representatives of the slave class were authorized to train and appoint
  
  ::overseers in the congregations, and they, in turn, trained the sheep.
  
  AND
  
  ::Jesus...appointed it (slave class) over...all his spiritual interests on earth
  
  ::The WTS teaches that this happened in 1919. Evidently, those in the WTS before that date were not ::working with and under Christ's directions...
  
  
  If the slave was not identified until 1919, how did they do anything in the first century?
  
  blondie, any comments?
• 

  xjwms

  Blondie

  another OUTSTANDING job

  you are more effective than the seven times it was in the wt.
• 

  blondie

  Hi IW,

  When I first took the Beliefnet questionnaire to determine what religion I was, it came up Orthodox Jew. Not a surprise when I realized what little part Jesus played in the WTS theology. I remember studying the Greatest Man book and how refreshing it was not to have "Jehovah" the focus of every paragraph. It was then that I realized that Jesus never used "Jehovah" when he prayed to God and that Jesus said his followers would be witnesses of Jesus not "Jehovah."

  This emphasis on "Jehovah" and the pushing of Jesus to the background started with Rutherford’s desire to establish the name "Jehovah’s Witnesses" and to push the Bible Student background of the WTS out of mind. Also, when all of them were anointed, their relationship with Jesus was more important since he was to be their husband, they the bride, and to rule in heaven together. With the appearance of the "great multitude" who Rutherford said did not have this relationship, Jesus had to drop by the wayside.

  Poor jgnat, normally they would try to be nice to get the spouse to be a JW, but you are 1) a woman, of no value in the WTS hierarchy 2) a unsubmissive woman in their opinion at that. Your hubbie has to recognize who loves him and is loyal to him; and he knows it not the elders at the KH.

  Freedomlover,

  hey,

  Who watches the GB? Some of them don’t think God or Jesus does based on their excuses for their serious errors, that they neither repent about or try to make amends. The GB functions like an overblown elders’ body, with backbiting, cowards, bullies, and those who try to follow Christ and find they have to where to go, since Christ is not there.

  Daniel-p

  , hello, only an MS and privy to confidential information, eh? That is why I would never tell an elder anything I wasn’t comfortable having announced from the platform.

  Minimus

  , how much did you win?

  The good ones have left…….and the ones that try to stay and balance things are being booted. The elders that remain are complaining because there aren’t enough MS to do sound, accounts, attendants and the CO is making the elders do it, go back to the measly duties, and they feel humiliated. Some elders have even suggesting using sisters….they hate the idea of having to do it themselves.

  Hey Gary, good points.

  The Us and Them concept, we’re above the rank and file thinking……the fact that I see so many ex-elders in congregations refusing to step up to the plate again, shows how no amount of "double honor" will entice them to return. They get no honor from each other just abuse. So they lay back, get some time in, attend some meetings and relax.

  Moomanchu

  ,

  It’s bad, but not that bad as the Nazis. So far the governments do not enforce the WTS in its decisions. They allow them to practice their religion. You can still leave the KH and have freedom from the WTS. I know they have some influence through JW family and JW friends, but it’s not all encompassing. For that to happen, the new system of the WTS, the "paradise" on earth would have to be here. Then it would be Nazi time.

  http://www.macgregorministries.org/jehovahs_witnesses/armagsurv.html

  Hi, Blueblades,

  A circuit overseer made a comment to me," It seems like we are scraping the bottom of the barrell".

  Actually, now they aren’t even IN the barrel any more.

  Hey, TooOpinionated,

  Printed it, 15 pages, wow! Let me know what they think. Will we see you on 8/19?

  Hi, Flash, where ya been?

  Paul did say that the Christians then were choosing him and other men to be disciples of. I never thought of connecting the Pharisee rule-making with Paul’s propensity to make rules. The elders are given leeway to make rules for the sake of "order" which ends up covering every rule they want to make.

  *** w96 9/1 p. 20 par. 3 Living by the Law of the Christ ***

  . And there is more. Jehovah’s organization, as well as individual congregations, has to establish necessary rules and procedures in order to preserve good order. (1 Corinthians 14:33, 40) Why, Christians could not even meet together if they had no rules as to when, where, and how to hold such meetings!

  Hey, cathyk, I think I have seen your website out on Google. I sent you a PM on the fact that this change happened in 2000 about the same time several more WTS corporations were formed ostensibly to make it harder to sue. I was thinking too of days long ago, when the CO said that JWs were not publishers of books, that the WTS did that, that JWs were publishers of the good news. Evidently, they no longer think that way. It was strange the first time I saw that in a WT article, attriibuting a publication or a quote "published by Jehovah’s Witnesses." So starting in 2000 till now, you will not find "published by the WTS" in an article.

  Hi, heathen, it just depends on how much people contribute. In some halls, they never "harass" because they get enough money to pay their bills. In some, they are always scraping by to pay the electric bill. Many times the CO will "suggest" that the elders pay up…so that leads to "kindly reminders." I have been in both kinds of congregations and closely related to the accounts servant in several. What a headache, robbing Peter to pay Paul. Some congregations even resort to robbing from the WTS (worldwide work donations) to pay their mortgage and electric bill. The WTS has printed warnings in the KMs that congregations cannot do that.

  Ok, A Paduan, "let us discuss" refers to the elders saying that, not Blondie, eh? By the time the elders approach you with that statement, they have already discussed you with each other individually, the elder body as a whole, and some even their wives (and then the wives with the best friends). The decision has already been made.

  Hi rassillon and welcome,

  The 1919 date does not refer to the "slave" being initially identified. Since the inception of the WTS/Bible Students (early 1870’s) the slave was identified officially as all of the anointed, but unofficially and strongly as Charles Taze Russell. The WTS also felt that the "slave" started at 33 CE with the anointing of the 120 with holy spirit. What the WTS cannot say is who the slave was from 100 CE (death of the apostle John) and 1879 when the WTS began. The WTS teaches that the "slave" died between 1914 and 1918 due to persecution and fear of man and thus the WTS board of directors was put in prison; Christ came "to his temple" to inspect in 1918, found only the Bible Students doing his will, and resurrected them and reaffirmed his approval on them. So by 1919 the WTS teaches they were freed from Babylon the Great.

  Good comments, I learn every week from you, Blondie
• 

  BluesBrother

  The Watchtowers used to contain religious articles. Now they contain commercials for corporate sponsored jobs. It's like now the only thing the Society has to write about is itself.

  Garybuss hit the nail on the head. I wish I had said that.

  In todays article. It starts with a subtle hint that elders should be appointed in their late twenties. When I was involved we were working away from that and saying that a man should be in mid thirties, but like an army on a recruitment drive, I suppose they have to take all they can get. After all if he was baptized at ten years old he has had around sixteen years experience already!

  The old chestnut of training M/S in shepherding is brought out. I resisted that as far as possible when I was an elder - only at one time when I did have a M'S who was really up to it. After all , what publisher is going to open up and talk in front of a pimply youth who just counts the attendance at the Hall? Or dear old Bro. Eccentric who is just not up to eldership??

  P14 "They base their counsel ......not on their own wisdom but on Gods word"... Is this not a subtle way of telling the elders to stop voicing their own opinions and interfering in peoples lives with unwanted advice? I cringed once or twice at what fellow elders told people, and for the sake of unity I could not say anything .{OK I might have done the same thing once or twice as well]. the message is to read a scripture and quote the Society and don't get us into trouble.

  P16. A notable exception to the list of training aids - The Pay Attention Book for elders only. Perhaps they don't want the flock to be aware of it - they might get curious. Although they can find it easy enough on line.

  BTW Cathyk - my copy of "Organized To do Jehovah's Will" credits the publishing to the WTBS as well. I think that Blondie meant that in this article footnote it just says that it is published by Jehovah's Witnesses.

  So as the article concludes, "How grateful we are that Jehovah has trained men who deeply care for each member of the Christian Congregation"...Hmmmmmm.
• 

  heathen

  What a headache, robbing Peter to pay Paul. Some congregations even resort to robbing from the WTS (worldwide work donations) to pay their mortgage and electric bill. The WTS has printed warnings in the KMs that congregations cannot do that.

  Yah , I seem to remember alot of "reminders" that the WW box was not used for local needs or visa versa and it seemed like kinda a ruse , like people were not putting the money in the right box . Of course this was also during the constant complaints of not having enough to pay for everything locally . It's amazing that over 10yrs. later and I'm still trying to figure these tactics out , whatever was going on then and why so many people were so angry . Ya ask me I think the devil devoured the whole bunch . There is no reason to complain about late mortgages when you borrowed the money from the WTBTS book publishing corporation to begin with . They really don't deserve to have nice buildings at all . I say tents and porta potties for the lot .............. and that's too good for you.
• 

  cathyk

  Hey, cathyk, I think I have seen your website out on Google.

  Yes, but which one? I had the "Watchtower Collectors' Corner," which I can no longer keep up with because of family and business matters. I've gone into the used/antiquarian book business, which is the other website that turns up on Google: Old Lighthouse Books. Collecting the JW literature got me interested in book collecting in general. I specialize in religion, but I've got other topics covered as well.

  I sent you a PM on the fact that this change happened in 2000 about the same time several more WTS corporations were formed ostensibly to make it harder to sue. I was thinking too of days long ago, when the CO said that JWs were not publishers of books, that the WTS did that, that JWs were publishers of the good news. Evidently, they no longer think that way. It was strange the first time I saw that in a WT article, attriibuting a publication or a quote "published by Jehovah’s Witnesses." So starting in 2000 till now, you will not find "published by the WTS" in an article.

  That's the part that amuses me. I wonder how long it will be before they change the wording on the copyright page to match the usage in the magazines? It would seem to be the next necessary step in building the fence against lawsuits.

  Cathy Koenig