I read a few chapters of Mark and noticed that Jesus kept asking/saying to his disciples and everybody else around him to have faith in him.
After seening this word for the nth time a became suspicious especially since he was performing miracles infront of their very eyes. Why do you need faith if the evidence is right in front of you?
It just leads me to believe that these miracles never happened, the author knowing this, covered himself by telling his future readers to believe through faith.
Why does the bible play the faith game? According to the NT, Paul didn't need faith, he got a direct supernatural message from Christ. Jesus himself didn't need faith, yet he asked the lowly to have faith on very little information. All that says is they believed out of ignorance.
It's obvious that you should come up with the goods, then let people decide which way they want to go.
Any comments?
Jesus constantly asked his audience to have faith. Why?
by Spectrum 3 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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Spectrum
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Narkissos
I read a few chapters of Mark and noticed that Jesus kept asking/saying to his disciples and everybody else around him to have faith in him.
I would suggest that you have read the "in him" part into the text. The only place in Mark where some manuscripts actually mention faith/belief in Jesus is 9:42, but (1) it may well be a later addition influenced by the Matthean parallel and (2) this text does not ask for belief but refers to dealing with "believers" (in that case, the exorcist who didn't follow Jesus!), i.e. not stumbling them."Faith" in Mark works as a sort of magical power -- often in interaction with Jesus but not necessarily so: that's the point of many miracles stories, where Jesus insists that people's faith, not he -- perhaps not even God -- saves / cures. This culminates in 11:22 with the fig-tree story which leads to the saying: Ekhete pistin theou -- "Have the faith of God," "Have God's faith," or even "have a god's faith," not "have faith in God" as most translations put it. As a side remark, remember how the specific Markan parable in 4:26ff insists on the earth's producing fruit by itself, "automatically" (automatè in Greek), and you have a good example of Mark's style of thinking. Matthew and Luke will have a hard time clearing the Markan "faith" from its magical overtones and making it faith in Jesus' word (Matthew) or person (Luke).
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Spectrum
I found your post quite hard to understand but I believe you are saying that faith is not believing something when there is no evidence. This kind of faith you ascribe to Mark's verses sounds like a holy spirit type entity. We don't know what it is but we accept that it is very important.
So you are saying that Jesus wasn't actually telling people to believe in something but add a spiritual attribute to themselves called faith? -
Narkissos
I wouldn't have suspected it would sound that obscure. Sorry.
I believe you are saying that faith is not believing something when there is no evidence.
No. "Evidence" or the lack of it is not the issue.
This kind of faith you ascribe to Mark's verses sounds like a holy spirit type entity. We don't know what it is but we accept that it is very important.
It is not really "something". Slightly exaggerating it is the very act of believing (trusting, if you prefer) which saves/heals automatically. It is not believing in some superior being (Christ, God) as a condition for him to do the miracle. Faith itself does the work.
So you are saying that Jesus wasn't actually telling people to believe in something
Yes. At least the Markan emphasis is not on believing in someone. Rather believing that something (healing, for instance) can and will happen.
Mark 11:22ff, literally: "Have God's / a god's faith. Amen I tell you, whoever says to this mountain, 'Be taken up and thrown into the sea,' and does not doubt in his heart, but believe that what he says will come to pass, so it will be to him. So I tell you, whatever you ask for in prayer, believe that you have received it, and it will be to you."
but add a spiritual attribute to themselves called faith?
No: faith in Mark is not something "added" or "given," it is the individual's own spontaneous movement.
Again, I think this is particular to Mark: Matthew, Luke and also John will completely modify this "magical" understanding of faith.