"Are you one of her trolls, perhaps from another computer with a different I.P. address?"
I slavishly follow nobody.
The Devil couldn't have done a better job, assuming God inspired the Bible
by Spectrum 26 Replies latest watchtower bible
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Spectrum
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wanderlustguy
I slavishly follow nobody.
I used to say that...but sometimes...when she's in the mood...
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Spectrum
" So are you passing judgement on the direction the bible has given or what mankind has done with that direction."
I think you are missing my point. I'll try again:
God supposedly gave us a written guide. This guide, given man's nature, is open to all sorts of interpretations as exhibited by 1000 christian denominations and a billion muslims. Man's nature is to destroy a wolf it comes in contact with that is from another wolf pack, we are not that different from animals. God supposedly knows man's nature but for reason's only known to himself proceeded to go down this path of "enlightenment" that would lead to carnage and given man's nature this outcome is highly predictable. This book cannot therefore be from God. -
Spectrum
"but sometimes...when she's in the mood."
I might have to concede that one too, when it is was time that was it!! -
freetosee
The Holy Bible:
God Is Not The Author
-Mark Smith-
Imagine the ruler of the universe noticing his favorite creatures needed guidance. He decides to write a book for them. Because he’s too busy with his hobby (counting hairs 2 ), he’ll never make time to come down to explain or update his book. Therefore this one book, as-is, first and only edition, will have to stand on its own for all humanity for all time- even surviving translations by these error-prone men.
And knowing beforehand this book would require translations into all the languages of the world, he would not write the original in an obscure language using an even more obscure dialect, but rather in the leading language of the world at the time. He would not use cultural idioms or sayings that would require a native born speaker or a PhD in Cultural Anthropology to interpret. And he would not pick a language for which no dictionaries existed.
Realizing the importance of such a task, this god would go out of his way to make sure his book was idiot proof: i.e. crystal clear, the points painfully obvious, and with no ambiguity. Whatever he was trying to say, he’d do the perfect job, as he is the perfect author. There would never be any question at any time over what he had written. As the creator of humans, he knows how they think, and how to communicate to them. He’d be the best writer that could ever exist. What would flow forth from his divine pen would be pure perfection- far better and clearer than anything mere mortals could author.
And if the Bible were indeed written by this Lord God Almighty, this is exactly what we would see. But rather we see a book that has confused mankind ever since it evolved, even sparking wars over it’s interpretation. We see a book full of ambiguities to the point where thousands of sects have written thousands of books expounding thousands of contradictory interpretations. Even within the Bible itself we find confusion concerning the quality of the writing- one author (Peter) slams another (Paul) for authoring text that was confusing 5 while Paul himself (apparently confused) held the opposite view of his own writing. 6 It should be a sure sign to the Christians that they're in trouble when the books to explain the Bible are sometimes larger than the Bible itself, such as the "Encyclopedia of Bible Difficulties" at 476 pages and "Hard Sayings of The Bible" at 808 pages. Books and commentaries like these exist solely to make clear what the Bible so clearly failed to make clear in the first place.
Even in fundamentals and essentials the Bible fails to clearly communicate. Imagine bailing out of an airplane about to crash, having never parachuted before, only to discover on your way down that the instructions on the side of your parachute are as muddled as the Bible’s "Plan of Salvation"! Yet this is the situation Christians find themselves in. Christians believe themselves free-falling towards hell, and need an answer to the question "What must I do to be saved?" 3 . Certainly the answer to at least this question would have been written in language so plain and beyond dispute as to be easily understood. Yet even on this most vital of questions, the data has been garbled. Christianity is in free-fall, and cannot agree on the parachute’s instructions. Even in matters as important as salvation, honest Christians can’t agree upon what the Bible is trying to say, as you can see in the following chart.
What Must I Do
To Be Saved???
Catholic
Get baptized
Receive sacraments
Do good works
Baptist
Believe
Repent
Presbyterian / Reformed
Do nothing *
Church of Christ
Hear the gospel
Believe
Repent
Confess
Baptism
United Pentecostal
Believe
Repent
Baptism
Speak in tongues
* It’s out of your control. God picks you or doesn’t.
This confusion over salvation would not exist IF the Christian’s Bible had actually been authored by whom the Christians claim it was. For if really authored by an intelligent god it would have been clear, concise, obvious and idiot proof. Not a single commentary would have ever been written trying to make sense out of it. Not a single "Yet More Problems Of The Bible Excused" book would have been conceived, and not a single Christian with a normal IQ would have ever disagreed with another over what the book said. After all, how in hell can average Christians be held accountable to obey a book when even the experts can’t agree on what the book is trying to say. As the Apostle Paul himself wrote, "if the bugle produces an indistinct sound, who will prepare himself for battle." 4 The simple fact is if this book were really authored by a god, this confusion would not exist. Period. But it does exist. This fact, when combined with another fact right from the Christian’s own Bible, "God is not the AUTHOR of confusion..." 1 can only lead to one conclusion: no "god" authored that confusing mess known as The Bible.
If shown another book that was contradictory or confusing, Christians would be skeptical if told a Tom Clancy or C.S. Lewis was it’s author. Yet these same people, seeing these same problems within their own Bible, never doubt for a minute that "the Lord God Almighty" authored it. Boeing can author a repair manual for a 757, distribute it to aircraft technicians worldwide, and every single technician agrees with the next over what the manual says. On the other hand, the Bible can produce a hundred contradictory interpretations in a hundred churches in a hundred little piss-ant towns. Why? Because the Technical Writers at Boeing are better authors than the real clowns who authored the Bible.
Christianity has had thousands of scholars over thousands of years obsessing over this one small book, yet they still can’t agree on what the hell it says. The Bible is confusing, Christianity over the past two thousand years has never agreed on what it says, and this is a FACT. This fact alone is proof enough it wasn’t authored by an intelligent god. How do I know this? "The Bible Tells Me So" right in 1st Corinthians 14:33
God is not
the author of confusion
1) 1Cor 14:33, KJV 2)Mt 10:30 3)Acts 16:30 4)1Cor 14:8 5)2Pet 3:16 6)2Cor 1:13
http://www.jcnot4me.com/Items/theology/god_not_the_author/Nt_Autho.htm
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Adonais Child
"God supposedly gave us a written guide. This guide, given man's nature, is open to all sorts of interpretations as exhibited by 1000 christian denominations and a billion muslims. Man's nature is to destroy a wolf it comes in contact with that is from another wolf pack, we are not that different from animals. God supposedly knows man's nature but for reason's only known to himself proceeded to go down this path of "enlightenment" that would lead to carnage and given man's nature this outcome is highly predictable. This book cannot therefore be from God." I see your point and I reiterate that you are dealing with man's interpretation of the bible. Granted it gets skewed, misuse, and great atrocities are justified by its use. That does not make the bible the culprit; it makes man the culprit for the interpretation of it. I hold beliefs different to other denominations of Christianity but do I get on a soap box and condemn them for it, no I don't. If they are saved and my brothers and sisters in Christ then I pray for them, as the bible tells me too, not go out and beat them into submission. It is man's nature to destroy what is different but the bible doesn't teach this so saying "it is open to all sorts of interpretations" is correct but that is man interfering with the intent and message of the bible not the bible causing man to interpret it incorrectly and act on those incorrect interpretations. You are blaming the goat for being a goat because he gets eaten. God does know man's nature, he created us and he knew that we would interpret things incorrectly and you can look at history and see attempts to straighten these things out but there is one fundamental element here that is not being given credit. We are sinful in nature, not just in act. If you want man to interpret the bible correctly, live by its commandments and ways, and make the world is a better place you are looking for utopia which mankind cannot bring about. Sin gets in the way of all things and until it is removed from this world it will continue to taint all things from the earth to human beings. The bible is a guide to many things but it is amoral. The bible itself cannot have morality but man who reads and interprets it does. And it is his actions that are being judged. You are looking for God to give perfection by way of the bible, it isn't going to happen. The bible is a guide as you have said and a guide is open to interpretation. This pathway of "enlightenment" is highly predictable to have the outcome it does but not always, by God's love do we have a choice instead of being made automatons. Would you rather choose to obey or be made to obey? If you were a JW I already know the answer to that question. God's pathway to enlightenment is possible as it is written, man chooses to change that path.
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Adonais Child
"God supposedly gave us a written guide. This guide, given man's nature, is open to all sorts of interpretations as exhibited by 1000 christian denominations and a billion muslims. Man's nature is to destroy a wolf it comes in contact with that is from another wolf pack, we are not that different from animals. God supposedly knows man's nature but for reason's only known to himself proceeded to go down this path of "enlightenment" that would lead to carnage and given man's nature this outcome is highly predictable. This book cannot therefore be from God."
I see your point and I reiterate that you are dealing with man's interpretation of the bible. Granted it gets skewed, misuse, and great atrocities are justified by its use. That does not make the bible the culprit; it makes man the culprit for the interpretation of it. I hold beliefs different to other denominations of Christianity but do I get on a soap box and condemn them for it, no I don't. If they are saved and my brothers and sisters in Christ then I pray for them, as the bible tells me too, not go out and beat them into submission. It is man's nature to destroy what is different but the bible doesn't teach this so saying "it is open to all sorts of interpretations" is correct but that is man interfering with the intent and message of the bible not the bible causing man to interpret it incorrectly and act on those incorrect interpretations. You are blaming the goat for being a goat because he gets eaten.
God does know man's nature, he created us and he knew that we would interpret things incorrectly and you can look at history and see attempts to straighten these things out but there is one fundamental element here that is not being given credit. We are sinful in nature, not just in act. If you want man to interpret the bible correctly, live by its commandments and ways, and make the world is a better place you are looking for utopia which mankind cannot bring about. Sin gets in the way of all things and until it is removed from this world it will continue to taint all things from the earth to human beings. The bible is a guide to many things but it is amoral. The bible itself cannot have morality but man who reads and interprets it does. And it is his actions that are being judged. You are looking for God to give perfection by way of the bible, it isn't going to happen. The bible is a guide as you have said and a guide is open to interpretation.
This pathway of "enlightenment" is highly predictable to have the outcome it does but not always, by God's love do we have a choice instead of being made automatons. Would you rather choose to obey or be made to obey? If you were a JW I already know the answer to that question. God's pathway to enlightenment is possible as it is written, man chooses to change that path.