Finally out of Hiding (page 2)

greendawn

Do the JWs have love between themselves? I don't think they do from what I have seen, true they may be less destructive to each other but that doesn't mean they have true love, eg do they help out JWs that are in need? From what I know they just tell them "pray to jehovah and he will help you" which basically is what non JWs do.

Love means more than a neutral stand, it's not just not to cause harm but also to actively benefit.

KW13

in that case, these two...

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=luke%2021:8&version=31 (Luke 21:8)

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Mark%209:38-41;&version=31 ; (Mark 9:38-41)

Lady Liberty

Dear Shador,

I am sorry you were recieved by your parents this way. It seems to be another textbook case of denial. I too was one who would not listen when I was presented with this information from my parents. I was certain they had gotten into "apostate" literature, and I wanted nothing to do with it. It took me about two years to finally realise they were only telling me the truth. What would they say the next time they told you that was just apostate information, if you were to tell them, what if its not?? Shouldn't 607 if factual be able to be supported by facts?? If so where are they?? Only in the Societys literature?? Where are they getting their facts from?? The way I got my husband to finally see tis delima was to ask him to prove 607 without the Societys literature. He couldn't. That stumped him. If it was a factual date, it should be provable right?? This one question, if you can get them to try and prove this to you could be the "key" to pandoras box. As all the other issues will naturally come on their own. I would stick to that issue if I were you.

I am sorry that you are uncertain what will happen to you from here on out. Remember, you are not alone. Many here have been kicked out for the same reasons. Keep strong, and don't forget your relationship with Jehovah!! He will help you get through this!! Also, don't forget, you have many friends here who understand. Were here for support. Your in our thoughts and prayers.

Sincerely,

Lady Liberty

Inquisitor

Do scientists know why humans are senescent? Yes and no.

The assertion that science is completely clueless about human aging is laughable. Like Auldsoul said, the shortening of chromosomal telomeres have been attributed as a possible cause for aging. Is this the sole reason? Does making a drug to prevent the shortening of telomeres necessarily mean a solution to human mortality? Or are there other factors to consider? Those questions remain to be answered.

Btw, Auldsoul, I didn't miss the fact that you said "(chromosome) is designed to have a terminus". Tsk Tsk Tsk
(Wags finger) lol

The real problem with the WTS referring to the lifespan of trees and turtles is the presumption that other animals necessarily live longer than man. Sure, it's absolutely fantastic that certain organisms can live for eons. But why has the WTS conveniently ignored the fact that there are fishes that only live for 59 days (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/4530959.stm )? Or trees that only live for 122 years ( http://www.rmtrr.org/oldlist.htm ), being easily beaten by the longest living human ever recorded ( http://www.grg.org/Guinness2002.htm )?

How would the WTS (or in this case, Shador's well-meaning Dad) explain the confounding brevity of these organisms' lifespans? Are THESE, LIKE THE SINFUL DESCENDENTS OF ADAM, NOT LIVING TO THEIR FULL POTENTIAL???

How shall we CONTORT the doctrine of sin and aging to explain their senescence? Did an ancestral tree or ancestral fish ALSO eat a Forbidden fruit? Have certain plant or marine species SINNED against Jehovah? Has He anointed a Tree Messiah or a Fish Messiah to save them?

Knowledge empowers us, doesn't it?

INQ

supersonic

How old are you shador? I guess i am quite lucky as my parents won't kick me out if i stopped going, they did say i would be kicked out if i started doing wrong things though.

Poztate

That, and the support all you are expressing has given me new wind in my sails to endure the hell that is to come with the JC. Though, really, I see no need to go before a JC or defend myself to religious frauds. I suppose I may have to though...

The only "reason" to appear at a JC is if you want to stay in. Since that is not your goal I would just advise you to IGNORE the elders and any demand that you appear before them. To appear before them,in my mind is just giving them a power over you that they are not worthy of.You can accomplish nothing at a JC and the announcement would still be the same.

AuldSoul

Btw, Auldsoul, I didn't miss the fact that you said "(chromosome) is designed to have a terminus". Tsk Tsk Tsk (Wags finger) lol

Design only implies intelligence. Surely that possibility has not yet been ruled out. All life has a terminus. All terminus for all life is caused by the exact same process, barring intrusion of other organisms (disease), malnutrition, or violent death (extraction, slaughter, lightning strikes, etcetera).

Therefore, we are discussing part of the original makeup for life, so this is part of the biogenesis versus abiogenesis debate, which is far from certain on any side. This is not an aspect of evolution, which would relate to the progressions from that point of origin. So, it was not without reason that I said designed. If we say it happened accidentally, then that was quite a stroke of additional good luck. As much as any other cause, the diversity of life we have is because of death.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

Sunnygal41

"They don't really care about you. They will tell lies and half-truths in an effort to destroy your faith. That's all they really want to do."

This is where I stopped reading and MUST respond. This is 100% bullshit. The fact is each and every one of us "so called apostates" want to keep other victims from being damaged or any part of their precious life taken up with such a worthless pursuit or belief system as Jehovah's Witnesses try to make you swallow. Life is Bigger and Broader than what the JW's present, as is god/life force/Universal/Great Spirt. Big clue on whether to believe what they teach: when you read something about god in the WT literature or in the Bible, if the God in those instances makes your moral system of belief look like a perfect angel's...........then you need to call it like it is: bullshit.

blindersoff

What 'Poztate' said.

Also--

At this point there has not been a DF offense committed from what I read. Thus a JC would not be formed until a couple of elders have looked into it and could actually charge you with apostacy. They would be required to try to help you 'come to your senses'. It could be that their conduct and inability to prove 607 might have an eye opening effect on your parents

B

Sunnygal41

So I have no idea what I'm gonna do now. I may be able to go live with my (worldly) grandmother in Maryland, but as for a job?

Mike, you will do fine. March your tail down to as many temp agencies as you can, sign up. Then, it will be their show. They are in business to find you a job. I know because I started working for them shortly after I was let go from a job. I was devastated. I had finally, after 16 yers decided to break free from a major crutch in my life: working for an elder in the local congregation. He was extremely emotionally abusive to me. I knew on some level it was because of his own upbringing, but, I was struggling with my own and didn't need the extra junk added. They found me a position as a receptionist within a week, and within 3 days they told me they wanted to hire me. So, lesson: don't underestimate your own natural gifts and talents as well as experience. I've gained many many valuable experiences from that experience. In fact, it helped me decide, at 40 years old that I was through with my marriage and my connection with the JW's. Hope this helps encourage you, Mike.

Terri

Finally out of Hiding

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