by Shador 38 Replies latest jw experiences
I agree with Sunnygirl.
If apostates are only concerned about destroying JWs faith, why is it that when the JW becomes EXJW the other apostates still keep in touch with that person, still support that person and still remain friends with them? If they didn't care, once your faith was destroyed you wouldn't see them for dust, right?
Sirona
End result: You KNOW this is the truth, you just don't want to live by it!
That's the bottom line for ALL JWs. In the end, there's no honourable way out - they will demonize you no matter what you say.
I don't think they can DF you for simply stopping believing, but if you come out strongly saying you don't believe then you will be classed as disassociating yourself.
Play it clever and talk 'doubts and issues' but don't be definite if you don't want to be kicked out. It will give you time to prepare to leave on your own terms.
I wish you luck.
Loved how you put it, Sirona..........lol...........I've personally met at least 3 apostates........they all proved to be wonderful people in real life.............and one I now count as one of my closest, best friends..........(((((Flyin'))))) We are there for each other.............I've given money to an apostate friend..........and back when Hurricane Katrina swept through, I was one who donated money along with MANY others to a few apostates on this board. And, it just kills me when the Dubs try to frighten us about "worldly people" These people are the ones who contribute food and money to churches and food banks.............what about the JW's? How many did we ever know in our former KH's who fed a homeless or down on their luck people?
Terri
Sunnygal41,
How many did we ever know in our former KH's who fed a homeless or down on their luck people?
That isn't fair at all. It is a known fact that the life expectancy of homeless people is MUCH lower than others. And down on their luck people are alos in higher risk groups. If they die BEFORE Armageddon they get everlasting life. If they survive (through our help) until Armageddon, they are toast for all eternity. So, you see, it is really a kindness that JWs aren't widely known for helping worldly people survive longer.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul
P.S. I somehow feel slimey and dirty...I wonder if it washes off?
Ergo,no 1914 then there can be no 1918 inspection.....
The central CORE doctrine of the Watchtower,yes the reason the Watchtower came into existence was to declare Jesus second coming in 1914.When the prophecy (derived from William Miller of 1842) failed they said that he came "invisibly".
Ergo,no 1914 then there can be no 1918 inspection and sealing of the 'anointed' so the entire wts doctrinal superstructure comes crashing down like a house of cards.
Who says you "have" to meet with the elders?
(Just say no.)
Shador- Maybe I look at it funny, but......
I have to say that yes, your parents and the congregation love you very much. But it is a twisted love and they have been trained and programmed that way. don't hate, and it will hurt like hell because not often do they leave with you. But it really is a case of this. Are you live your life as an aware and intelligent person, or are you going to black out your brain and run back to a cult. And this is just as much a cult as any other. You know the koolaide drinking, orgy holding kind. It is a case of all of your loved ones, or I would assume not knowing how brainwashed they are and the Society does it quite well. If you question anything, then you are apostate. That is lower than low. So thinking is a bad thing. Do as the GB leads us to do and do it meeklike. Like a lamb. Strive to give of yourself. Be a servant. Serve Jehovah, start pioneering. They make us have an unatural love from the start. So we are separated from true feelings and taught to love as they taught. Conditionally. You follow your parents, husband, children until they break Jehovahs laws.
Then the GB makes the laws. If you follow you are ok, and if you break them your husband children parents at that point have been taught that this is where the love is turned off. I often think about it and we are told these people are an abomination, discusting and vile. That if people leave to the world after knowing Jehovah, they area a dog going back to their vomit. So they are are actiually trained to turn off their love, despise you and even worse they are taught to be so meek and nonquestioning, they don't blink an eye as they do it..
If we are taught love is good until they cross the line of Jehovah...then we cut them off. We most all of us did that.
So they then convince by repetition, repetition, repetition AKA Brainwash, brainwash, brainwash.. that the GB is the closest thing to Jehovah, Then they get you reading their material at least 5 hours a week. Add study time, and service for the normal person and that brainwashes you more roughly 10 hours a week. If I spent that much time reading other things, I would have been a doctor or had a proffession and then some. ten hours a week times 52 weeks in a year, that is 520 hours of brainwashing straight. By the time you are ten years of age you have had about 5200 hours of brainwashing and it you take the average 30 year old, they have spent at least 15600 hours being brainwashed . Dont forget we diod not add in 30 years of 2 and 4 day weekends straight. And even worse we are told to keep it in the forefront of our mind. So even on our "take a break from brainwashing time" we still think on it.
There are ways they have of making you afraid to question. and that is possibly what I am trying to say. This is done so much that you come to believe subtle things you have not really thought on. Like the fact that dissasociating or not talking to your own child or parent is so really so damn freaky, that the whole world thinks you are f**ed up. When really by letting us know up front that the world will think this, we dont even bat an eye when people even try to tell us we are. They are the bad ones, they are misled They convince you that others are brainwashed and give you an overbloated sence of being right and the odd thing is that they teach us to be condecending and all the while we are actually being condecending. Most everything boils down to this......what would Jehovah think? See?
So when I wear a skirt above the knee, "what would Jehovah think." And for wearing it alone...I was trying to show my sexuality...What would Jehovah think. And if someone rapes you while you are wearing that skirt, you asked for it...Jehovah told you not to wear clothes like that, and when you you don't talk to your child, well they brought shame on Jehovah. And they say it all with a straight face as we are taught this. So we have no clue that all of these things are so wacked sounding.
It could be related to when I worked with juvenile delinquents. Those kids were really wacked and yet I was so used to them and all their problems that the situation became norm for me. Later when I changed jobs and was around kids that were normal it was the abnorm.
I am sure you already know this but your family has been kept in this wacked world invented by the GB and it will them having something make them start questioning. You never know what that might be.
So don't give up on your loved ones truly believe and actually are loving you the absolute best way they can. They just do not know it is not enough.
And speaking of brainwashing, here is some interesting stuff that came up right away...when I searched via net. Good reading!.
Isolation - not unlike prisoners the victims in an abusive home are deprived of social support of family and friends. This undermines their ability to maintain self-esteem/ self-worth, as well as doing a reality-check, resulting in an inability to resist. The victims develop an intense concern with self, worrying and doubting their ability to know what is right from wrong. This makes the victims dependent upon the interrogator or abusive spouse. keep separate from the world, they straight up told us and taught us. That we will fail if we follow on our own minds and heart was what we get told. All people want to turn us from Jehovah)
Enforcing Trivial Demands - Develops habits of compliance. - fixes attention upon immediate predicament by often creating chaos. Abusers frustrate all actions not consistent with compliance.
Abusers insist on compliance with trivial demands related to all facets of life: food, clothing, money, household arrangements, children, and conversation. (No blood products, no short skirts must wear panty hose, this kind of undergarmewnt, this way of speech, no fee chioce in music, books, all things sensored and we are taught that sensorship is exactly what we need, dont be materialistic, we are made to feel normal things are bad like wanting a home, car, car must be service appropriate, not flashy, children were eaten by bears for teasing a grown up, and should willfully go if their parents wanted to put a knife through theirr heart and make a sacrafice of the, and we need to make sure our conversations do not detract from Jehovah, so we had a limited number os subjects. .) Deprivation Resulting in reduced ability to function, exhaustion that weakens mental and physical ability to resist. Sleep deprivation caused by arguing through the night. Exhaustion makes it more difficult to counter the accusations of the abuser. Victims often end up agreeing to things they never would under normal conditions. (Lack of down time. It is always about Jehovah. You are told to think on it shen you lay down and when you get up..)
Threats
In the initial phase of violence only threats are used, this cultivates anxiety, fear and despair. This also creates the impression that you are the cause of the problem and you are the one making the abuser do what he/she does, ie: explode. Threats are a form of emotional blackmail to make the person comply through intimidation. (We are born of imperfect, we will die if we leave jehovah, possible torture and persecution)
Occasional Indulgences
Provides motivation for compliance minimizing the perception of abuse, ie: he is not all bad. Hinders adjustment to deprivation by making you feel he is doing special favors for you, so how can you see him as an abuser who doesn't have your welfare in mind. (being a witness keeps us safe we enjoy a love nobody else knows in the world.) .
Demonstrating Omnipotence
Suggests futility of resistance, nothing you can do will work. Creates the impression of the abuser as powerful and abused as weak. Debilitates your strengths. (we cannot know how to direct our own steps. We don't know our hearts)
Degradation & Criticism
Makes cost of resistance appear more damaging to self than capitulation. Reduces prisoner to animal level concerns. Damages the core of the person's being and worth. Creates self-doubts. Everything you do is wrong, not good enough. (hmm, dog returning to vomit, getting the second death.,...eeeww, no coming back from that..) they actually teach us it is arrogant and pride is a bad thing, be meek and humble and follow, follow, follow.
http://www.crescentlife.com/psychissues/brainwashing.htm this is where I took that from. Look at the topics at the very bottom of the page...pretty strange,
When all these methods are combined, these tactics are powerful and difficult to resist, especially over a long period of time. The victim progressively becomes weaker and unable to defend herself.
Hi and welkom shador,
Your dad, took the well pounderin reasoning, which seems very logical at first glans. Of course he means what he says, and probably thinks of your well being.
However there are so many unreasonable assumptions in every line.
"Do you believe in God?" (Y/N)
this is not so effident. That many honest seeking people come to the conclusion that there is none, says enough. I guess it is natural for people to want a nice future and believe that dead is not the end. This implies a god or something spiritual. So, the WT saying that people choice not to believe in God for selfish purposes is just 180 degrees wrong.
"What kind of god is he? (Evidence of his love in creation of the beautiful earth, etc.)
If you just look around you, then why would anybody think that God is love and caring? You have a lot of explanation to do. You have to make up some other character and accuse this carracter of all bad. The nature itself is not loving, it is efficient.
"So why does man live only 70 or 80 years, while some TREES can live 4000+? (Body renews self, science does not understand why it stops doing so, marvelous design of brain, etc = Man not intended to die)"
Would you rather be a tree? As explained earlier science does understand (although not fully) why we age.
In fact we just have enough time to make children and raise them. Evolution explains this perfectly.
"Wouldn't a loving God explain what went wrong (also, wouldn't he provide guidance for man)?" "Bible is the only book that explains why we die, ergo, bible is God's word."
yes, a loving God would explain it, and would solve it. (a long time ago)
you can ask, why does the bible not show very clearly that it is Gods book (that would be so easy. Just let a profet note the distance to of the earth to the sun, the moon etc)
If the bible is so from God, then why it is about war, slavery and all kind of ancient criminal stories?
"What is the only religion who's members show true love among themselves and refuse to go to war and kill other members of the same religion in other lands?"
true love is everywhere and also in the organisation.
the witnesses are very much in unity indeed. A good thing maybe, but it is only because there is totally no freedom of speech.
well, what is left of this reasoning? zip
Danny B
Ok, so update.
Well, there was no JC. Three elders came over on Saturday while I was packing up. They "discussed matters" with me for *FOUR HOURS*. They looked over the arguments on 607 and poo-pooed them as being "out of context" and also, when they noted some info was from a 1965 WT, "out-of-date". They barely said anything about the NGO issue. Then they said that: 1. This wasn't really my own research, just the "out of context" ravings of some apostate. and 2. This apostate was just one person. The GB/FDS has whole teams of researchers looking into things when they print them. Then they promised that if I would stay they would study with me to address my concerns on the things I brought up.
They also said, in regards to my internet friends (both here and just general worldly friends that I have made), that "how can you trust them? Why, you don't even know who they really are. They could be anyone. They could be in jail for all you know." How can you trust them over your parents and your "real friends" (i.e. cong, and themselves.).
As for my relatives, they said that "Well, sure they'll *SAY* you can stay with them, cause you're kin to them. But you can bet they'll have second thoughts about it." And again: "How can you trust relatives you haven't seen in years (My aunt in Winston-Salem offered me that I could stay at her place.) over your own parents and friends, who love you.
So anyhoo, I was still resolute... until. After the talking to they bring my parents out to rehash everything with them. My emotions have already been being torn for the past 4 hours, mind you. Now, finally confronted with the hurt and sorrow in my parent's eyes, I cave and recant.
Sunday afternoon, we are informed that no action at all will be taken against me. I will even retain all "privlages of service" (working with the literature, sound box, mics, etc.).
So of course, if I change my mind now, I will have the added guilt trip laid on me of "how could you reject all the 'mercy' that was shown you?"
To top matters off, my parents are going to take MY computer (bought and paid for with MY money) out of my room. (Mind you, I'm 25 years old.)
Luckily there are still periods of time here at work when no one is around that I can access the sites I hang out on.
-----------------------
Now my grandmother is calling and wondering where I am, so of course I have to call her back. She is rather disappointed that I was "talked into" staying a Witness. But she told me that I still have options and my aunt's offer still stands whenever I want to take her up on it. So that's good.
Personally I think I'll at least hear what "proof" the elders can come up with for 607, etc. first.
-Mike
Wow!
My advice is to start getting ready to live outside your parent's house, and fast. Situations like this often go downhill after a person has made their feelings known about the org--at least that's what happened to a lot of us. Read the last few threads about Richie Rich's exit--lots of advice on getting your finances in order. Sock away some cash in the bank & get ready to move at a moment's notice.
Have you considered getting certified in medical transcription? If you've got that, you would be more competitive when applying for transcription jobs in facilities or doctors' offices. If you can get certified in coding on top of that, all the better.
