Church Fathers Purposely Lied about Jesus

by gumby 42 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • mouthy
    mouthy

    And some people will do almost anything TO believe.

    Yes my darling Gumby!!!! LIKE PRAY!!!! I guess that scripture that says ":He chose the foolish in the world to put the wise to shame" Your SO wise!!!!! Thank GOD I am so stupid. But I have a PEACE that passes all understanding, I have a friend, husband, Saviour,Redeemer, God, And I have NEVER in my 79 years felt so loved... BY GOD!!!! So Dear Gumby keep on searching( as you must be doing since your going back to so many wise mens words) & who knows you may find the truth.... I love ya!!!
    Mouthy/Granny/Grace

  • LittleToe
    LittleToe

    Didier:Ya beat me to the punch - I was going to state something similar, albeit more terse. I was going to ask whether Gumbhistorian really thought so badly of all those ancient folks that they musta been lying through their teeth.

    Sunny:
    Aye. Jung did some fascinating work on archtypes. The themes just keep on repeating.

  • Midget-Sasquatch
    Midget-Sasquatch

    That's why I find comparative religion interesting. The recurring myths can tell us something about ourselves. Sure Gumbster and the rest of the "Jesus was Myth" camp are making the most rational conclusion based on all the genuine historical facts that we have now.

    These jungian archetypes are symbolic constructs with meaning. Its less parsimonious I know, but I don't think its so improbable to consider that there really once was a Galilean who meant something akin to one of those archetypes to a number of people he interacted with. Not everyone perceived him as such.

  • Mary
    Mary

    Gumbers asked me to post this for him as he can't seem to post anymore....hope I've quoted the right parts!

    "So....Narkmeister.....are we saying that these church leaders and historians did in fact lie because they were human and because they let their belief system overide truthful facts and that these emotional moments of theirs went to the presses for the public to read and base their faith upon?

    Do modern day historians do the same......lie and make shit up to suit their emotions and beliefs?

    If this is the case....and god KNEW this was the case, then WHY did he chose to have these fallacious, emotional, lying men......record a book for all mankind to live by.....KNOWING full well it would be full of error?

    Mouthy,....I ain't wise.....I'm a dumb bastard. Beside, that scripture was talkin bout those who CHOSE to be wise over sound reasoning. They were wise in the sense of being rebellously proud to the point of not submiting to godly evidence. As soon as I get some evidence....I promise I won't act like a proud heathen bastage. and heres a big smack on the mouth cheek to my favorite living granny....and a little rose

  • mouthy
    mouthy

    and heres a big smack on the mouth cheek to my favorite living granny....and a little rose

    Aw Thank you darling

  • mouthy
    mouthy

    Mary wheres the rose he told ya to give me >>>>like this

  • Mary
    Mary

    Ooops! sorry hon.....here ya go:

  • Narkissos
    Narkissos

    Gummary,

    Do modern day historians do the same......lie and make shit up to suit their emotions and beliefs?

    My point was that modern historiography has developed a consistent methodology -- cross-checking, source criticism, etc. -- which limits the possibility of "making up". We consider "history" and "historical fiction" as distinct genres, whereas those were mixed to a very large extent in ancient historiography. Iow, in our professional-moral code, "inventing" is bad within the discipline we call "history". It is lie, fraud, etc. But we can't simply retroject this moral judgement on the past, when "history" did not mean exactly the same thing. Well, of course we can, but then we're missing something.

    Still, the way even real events are narrated now -- emphasised or toned down, explained by one cause rather than another -- always reflects the subjective perspective of the historians. Take history books written under, say, Nazi Germany, Stalinian USSR, USA during the Vietnam War or Netherlands in the past 20 years and you will feel the difference of perspective and meaning on the same events.

    If this is the case....and god KNEW this was the case, then WHY did he chose to have these fallacious, emotional, lying men......record a book for all mankind to live by.....KNOWING full well it would be full of error?

    Well, I'm not a theist anymore, but not all theists consider "God" as the great puppet-master pulling or dropping the strings...

  • gumby
    gumby

    Narkster....thanks for the reply buddy.

    I suppose I should not have grouped Eusebius with a Historian. Christian apologists should not be put into the same basket with a historian such as was Josephus. His job was to record facts...Eusebius's job was to kiss constantines arse and work for political/religious control.

    Gumby

  • evergreen
    evergreen

    I find it a little bit hard to believe that so many people would lie about the Messiah. You only have to read the bible and feel a sense of peace when you read about Jesus and what he did and what he will do.

    Yes i agree that deviant individuals perhaps did add or change a number of the scriptures over time to suit their teachings, but a lot of these errors have been found out when comparing them to other earlier writings. There probably were plenty more letters by the earlier Christians that for whatever reason didnt make it into todays bible, but the writings we do tell us a whole lot about our Lord. They are a comfort and a hope to all of us.

    You cant simply dismiss Jesus because of a few unscupulous individuals who wanted to suit their own selfish or political agenda.

    Think about it, why on this earth were so many Christians prepared to die at the hands of emporer Nero a short while after Jesus death. Was that made up to!. There is far to much evidence to simply dismiss Jesus as a made up character.

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