by asleif_dufansdottir 63 Replies latest jw friends
I'm a guncollector for 5 years an a X-JW for 3 years now. See my antique Winchester site;
http://websitemaker.kennisnet.nl/winchestercollection/
Maby we can do something with it. All my guns are from the USA but some items i like can't come to me because not all Americans wil ship to the Netherland. (all guns I order are antique and FFL free int he Netherlands).
Regards
Robert (Netherlands)
Back in my day, the 60's and 70's, guns were not specifically prohibited, but were strongly discouraged. Of course, it being Oklahoma City, practically all the men not "born in the truth" had at least a rifle or shotgun - and usually several handguns. This was just sort of overlooked.
Hunting was also discouraged - many statements were made about it being wrong to do hunting as a sport, but only if it were necessary for food. Nimrod was invariably brought up as a horrible example of how ugly an activity hunting was - "we need to have respect for all life". Also pointed out was the possibility of having an accident with a firearm. But, it was kind of put up with if you really needed the game as food for your family.
Right - so you drive 200 miles each way, pay for a 500 dollar shotgun, plus outfits, dogs, and licenses, because you need a few quail for food?
The weasel rationale was that if you shot anything in the field, you had to eat it! Same with fishing - don't just catch them and release them.
On the cop profession, statements were repeatedly made that if a situation arose where you had to use deadly force, then a real christian would have a terrible conscience later over being a manslayer. They could not be used in the congregation as a servant if they had that job.
I had several "born in the truth" teenage guys beg me to take them out to target shoot - most had never had a pistol in their hands before.
Hi.
My JW mother (who won't speak to me) has her concealed carry permit and carries a custom 1911 in her van for field service. With the full length guide rod I installed, she can shoot about a 2 1/4" group at 20 yards. She was counseled by the elders for having it with her, but the elders never protected her from being mugged, now did they?
Me, I'm a big hunter (deer, turkey, duck mainly) but I also am the proud father of a trio of customized AR-15s. One is a standard A2, one is an A3 with a freefloat dissipator upper, 4 way picatinny rails, surfire package, and an EOtech Holosoght, and the last is an A3 with a freefloat 24" Bull barrel topped with a Leupold 4-12 x 50 scope. I have two 1911s (colt .45s) one of which is tactically outifitted and one of which as recently converted to shoot .400 corbon ammunition (google that stuff- its crazy).
And I shoot bows too.
I was a British cop for 30 years. Never owned or carried a firearm. Faced a couple in my time.
Had a go with a few, including in the US. Didn't do a great deal for me, I'm afraid.
VM-44,
With reference to John 18:10:
Unfortunately in this instance, I threw all my WTS literature away when I broke with the dubs 12 years ago. So I cannot quote which issue of the Watchtower that this was mentioned in.
I do, however, remember them trying to explain the incident in the bible that you are referring to.
Apparently, the official reason given for why Simon Peter was armed in public with a lethal weapon was that "they used to carry weapons for protection against attack from wild animals."
I suppose if confronted by a lion or a bear, a sword would be marginally more effective than your bare hands -no pun intended!
(A .375 Magnum would have been a much better idea - but this incident happened 2000 years before those things were invented).
Didn't Jesus ask if anyone had a sword? Wasn't it the point that they could have resisted if they wanted, but they wanted to prove they were not trying to get away? If so, maybe this "wild animal" scenario is a little thin. I kind of read it as if the sword was symbolic of resistance, but that resistance was not the will of Jesus...and that resistance was not to a mountain lion.
PapaJohn, while in no way am I aligned with the pro-gun lobby, I think there is plenty of evidence that the Israelite kingdom was quite warlike and used whatever weapons there were at the time, all with YHWY blessing. King David was a pretty good hand with a rock and sling, after all.
Did you ever notice how the society had to struggle to come up with New Testament validation of their "dont be a soldier" "antiwar" stance - there just isn't much there to support their cause to force people to go to prison over the draft...
My JW mother (who won't speak to me) has her concealed carry permit and carries a custom 1911 in her van for field service. With the full length guide rod I installed, she can shoot about a 2 1/4" group at 20 yards. She was counseled by the elders for having it with her, but the elders never protected her from being mugged, now did they?
Dang! Some people have all the luck! (not about being mugged, obviously) Does the rest of the cong know? Are there those who refuse to go with her?
Knowing some of the families in our cong, I wouldn't have wanted to leave it in the van when I was at the door! Some of those kids (and adults) were not trustworthy!
I know I would feel really bad if I was a gun nut who had children in the house, and no body ever broke in or stole anything, but one day my small child found the gun an shot themself or someone else. No matter how many precautions you take, the best precaution is not to have one.
I would feel really bad if I called somebody a "gun nut" and accused them of being uncaring about the welfare of others, if I'd never met them. Just because you don't understand why somebody likes something doesn't make them a bad person. I'm certainly not so easily offended but remember you're *also* talking about my dad, my grandpa and my uncle...3 of the best people I have ever known...and I do kind of take offense to them being portrayed in this way.
I'd also feel really bad if my neice or nephews (aged 4-10) got into my car, put it in gear, and rolled it out into the road, across the ditch, through a fence and out into a field, like they did with their mom's van. They didn't get hurt but they could have.
I grew up with dad's guns in the house. At the time, nobody had gun safes. I was taught how dangerous they could be and knew better than to handle them when he wasn't around.
Some of us not only *like* guns, we choose to make the effort to acquire the skill in handling them, and learn to shoot accurately, so that we can defend ourselves and our loved ones in the event that something bad happens. We don't all live in Mayberry. As a matter of fact, bad things can happen in Mayberry too.
I don't harshly judge those who don't like guns, aren't comfortable with guns, or aren't interested in guns. To each his own. I would like to have that same courtesy extended to me.
As an aside, as I do not share your religious beliefs, Biblical examples, and telling me what "the God of Abraham" likes or does not like (according to you), is not going to affect me much.
asleif - I have a funny Luger story...
I had always wanted a real German Luger. My chance came when the oil boom failed in Oklahoma City in the 80s. An overextended oily that I knew had one of those reproduction Mauser Luger presentation pistols in the walnut box with all the tools, etc. and sold it to me under duress.
He made a big point that he had never fired it. Red flag in front of a bull, right?
So, down at the indoor range I confidently load up a clip, take careful aim, and squeeze off the first round. An audience of about 10 guys has collected back behind the observation window.
A Luger throws the spent casing straight up in the air, not to the side. So, it goes straight up in the air and blows out the overhead flourescent lighting tube over my head. The shards come down all about my head and shoulders.
My audience politely applauds my effort, making manful attempts not to completely lose it with hysterics...
Incidentally, that gun was a real nail driver - about as accurate as my 22 target pistols, and it NEVER JAMMED as long as I had it. (I did keep it clean, of course)
James
Luger throws the spent casing straight up in the air, not to the side. So, it goes straight up in the air and blows out the overhead flourescent lighting tube over my head. The shards come down all about my head and shoulders.My audience politely applauds my effort, making manful attempts not to completely lose it with hysterics...
Oh maaaaaan....isn't there a video of this on the web somewhere?????
Just think how much LESS crime would be happening if there were no guns in NYC?
I really don't intend to keep feeding this aspect of the thread, however, I consider it quite ironic that you use NYC as an example. NYC has among the strictest gun laws in the country. Permits are required to even own guns legally. Permits to carry handguns are almost never issued to private citizens, so such citizens are left with the choice of being defenseless or breaking the law. See what a wonderful job this does of keeping criminals from acquiring and using them on an unarmed and defenseless populous. Keeping guns out of the hands of law-abiding citizens has done *nothing* to reduce gun violence and gun crime.
Crime rates go down when the criminal population knows that their intended victims are likely to be armed (ie-when a state begins to issue carry permits). In fact, in one city in Florida, when the media reported that thousands of women were taking advantage of free handgun safety classes due to an increase in rape, rapes and attempted rapes went down even though it was not reported that any women used their handguns in self defense. The rapists knew their potential victims were more likely to be armed, and went elsewhere.
If my time in the JWs taught me nothing else, it is that I will no longer quietly submit to being a victim. I have the right to defend myself and my family.
If someone attacks me, attempts to rape me, or attempts to break into my home, I have the right to defend myself. I do not have to meekly submit to those who would cause me harm. As a woman, I do not have the physical strength needed to fight off a male attacker.
If a person makes the choice to attack me, they will suffer the consequences. I do not apologize for this.
