I was recently discussing this topic with my "pentacostal" fire and brimstone preaching granduncle. He said that alot of christians try to be "politically correct" and wiggle out of this question for fear of "turning" people away. He said that most born-again christians that believe in hell fire do believe that Jehovah is going to torment babies in hell if their parents have not accepted jesus as their lord and savior. He said he is not ashamed or embarrassed to say what he believes and he wishes more christians would tell it like it is and not hide behind "politically correctness". I then asked him if Jehovah is a God of Love how could he torment babies of Jewish parents, babies of JW's, babies of Mormons, babies of 7th day adventist, babies of Budhist parents and so on? He said that it is the parents job to make sure their kid gets saved and if not then just like the babies that died in the flood in Noah's day the same will happen at Armaggeddon and the Rapture. I then ended the discussion with my grand-uncle and told him this is the main reason why I have a problem with christian's belief in hell fire. If Jehovah is going to torment babies then I don't won't to serve a God of Hate. Posters out their what do you believe and please no dancing around the subject like my uncle stated. Do you believe that Jehovah is going to torment babies Yes or No? I don't want any novel for an answer just Yes or No.
"Hell-fire/lake of fire" teachers, Is Jehovah going to "burn"unsaved babies
by booker-t 21 Replies latest jw friends
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barry
I beleive a God of love has to demonstrate justice because if people exist on other planets and the whole of heaven will be watching to see Gods justice in the judgement. If there isnt justice then God is no better than Satan. In the judgement the owness is on God. I have a problem with an eternal hell myself as I havent been brought up to beleive in a everlasting hell. -
ferret
NO
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blondie
Maybe he should burn all the people who believe this.
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Balsam
I had a discussion at my door with a local Baptist folks. There was an old dude and a younger man inviting people to their church. I asked them this same questions. They were brutally honest and said much the same as your Great Uncle. So listened politely then said that their God Jehovah is was aweful as Satan was and certainly not a God worth worshipping and discussion over.
If God is anything like portrayed in the Hebrew Scriptures then picked by Christians and added to the NT why in the world would anyone want worship such a God? I don't.
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DanTheMan
Sorry about your uncle's fundy mind-disease.
Ask him if he'll be able to view or otherwise have some awareness of the babies' souls being tormented when he's in heaven. Is he going to enjoy that?
Such utter lunacy.
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LittleToe
If you want a black and white, yes or no answer then go flip a coin (and maybe on the basis of the answer decide if you're going to return to the JWs or not). Life's not like that, so why should death and the afterlife be like that?
My beliefs on the subject (right or wrong, take it or leave it) would be:
The "gospel" is that the way is made open to all to enter into a relationship to the Divine. While the Christian framework of belief states that this is through Christ (the public face of God), it doesn't state that all will know that this was the means of their salvation this side of the grave. Nor does it state that all are saved from a poor fate, but rather declares that some will find their way into a lake of fire. I believe I need to explain further, however:
Torment is better phrased imprisonment and it's only of the devil that this is explicitly stated that it shall be of an everlasting imprisonment (Rev.20:10). Since the fire is evidently symbolic of purging I have to leave open the possibility that it may have a purpose of refining / reforming those cast in. Revelation is silent on the duration of this imprisonment, and hence it's probably comensurate with however long the individual wishes / needs to remain there.
The Gospel writers speak of it being a place of darkness and internal misery, ostensibly away from the face and presence of God, perhaps similar to the one found in Gen.1:2. They also speak symbolically of some being cast into "everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels", but while the fire is everlasting and the implication doesn't sound too promising, I think there's room to consider that it may be a duration of imprisonment there.
I don't like casting one writer against another, but passages of scripture in John allow that even now there are those who are in darkness and who may remain in darkness. To a Christian the idea of a living hell is to be separated from Christ. Regardless of location or destination this would be the worst torment.
In particular you ask about babies. Matthew 25 further talks about refraining from actions due to a lack of discernment of Christ, of which a baby can't perform. However the context doesn't speak of plain ignorance, but of a specific claim to enlightenment of Christ that proves to be ignorant or more likely hypocritical.
Rev. 20:12-15 has people being judged by their works written in the book of life, though the Church would have it that the only work that counts is accepting Christ in faith, all of grace. The phraseology found in that text bears scrutiny, as how else would it be a work of "life"?
Rev. 21:8 has a list of negative works for which imprisonment is due. This is interesting since these very "sins" are those for which Paul states some Christians once practiced, which leads me to conclude that either they haven't been pardoned for them, they have a duration of purgative and rehabilative imprisonment, or it truly is an eternal prospect.
No mention of babies throughout, I'm afraid. Personally I can't imagine them there, or more explicitly I can't imagine them there eternally, and very precisely I can't see them being tortured in literal flames. Of course my imagination is limited, and if it turns out the Gnostics were right and a Demiurge has the last laugh, then maybe it's all going to hell in a handbasket.
Since everything is ultimately supposed to glorify God, I just don't see how burning babies would do that, nor do I find scriptural warrant to believe it.
I don't know if this helps you with your alleged dilemma but there certainly should be plenty of food for thought, for you, within these meagre paragraphs. I should further explain that my understanding of Revelation is as a modified Preterist, rather than a literalist futurist. In other words while it may have a future explanation I prefer to think that it wasa coded reference to events and aspirations in the First Century, with a spiritual interpretation in each individual's life. To that end I think we all go through our own "dark night of the soul", perhaps many times.
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LittleToe
That having been said - short answer - no
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riverofdeceit
If you go by what the bible (old testament) tells of God then, yes. That dude has no problem killing babies. This is based on the presumption that the bible is reality, which it of course is not.
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Honesty
Read Ezekiel Chapter 18