by booker-t 21 Replies latest jw friends
Those who believe the God of the Bible punishes anyone (especially children) with eternal torture are twisted souls. Consider the following from Jeremiah 7:31:
31
And they have built the high places of To´pheth, which is in the valley of the son of Hin´nom, in order to burn their sons and their daughters in the fire, a thing that I had not commanded and that had not come up into my heart.’
You are asking a quick answer on both which is not possible.
The previous pope of the Catholic Church 10 years ago sent out a statment that hellfire was in the imagination of the masses, and that this idea had been in the minds of the parishoners for many years. (This never made big media coverage but is available)
The Lake of Fire according to what I was taught was the second death or was no resurrection in the new order.
No one is going to hell, no one is burning up, no one is suffering.
Relax, the most that can happen is we rest in peace when we die.
r.
booker-T:I was recently discussing this topic with my "pentacostal" fire and brimstone preaching granduncle. ; He said that alot of christians try to be "politically correct" and wiggle out of this question for fear of "turning" people away. ; He said that most born-again christians that believe in hell fire do believe that Jehovah is going to torment babies in hell if their parents have not accepted jesus as their lord and savior.
smellsgood: I have never, ever, ever heard of that from any member, pastor, writer, or any other person who is of the Christian persuasion.
No, there's always been what was called the age of "accountability" or something like that. Babies? suffering for their parents sin? when they don't even have the ability to distinguish right from wrong, make their own choices, etc? I can't imagine anybody believing that. Better ask your Uncle to point out where exactly that very bizarre and as far as I know, rare belief comes from.
booker-T: I then ended the discussion with my grand-uncle and told him this is the main reason why I have a problem with christian's belief in hell fire. ; If Jehovah is going to torment babies then I don't won't to serve a God of Hate.
smellsgood: the main reason is because the christians you think believe that Jehovah will torment babies in hell?
seriously, I don't know where your uncle came up with that. I have never encountered that belief.
If that's your main problem you needn't be bothered about it, Christians do not believe that. Maybe your uncle does, but no, that is not found in any creed/church/book that I can think of.
No, God will not torment babies.
smellsgood
LT: To a Christian the idea of a living hell is to be separated from Christ. ; Regardless of location or destination this would be the worst torment.
precisely
smellsgood
Do you believe that Jehovah is going to torment babies Yes or No?
I think 'jehovah' already does - making 'em go to three meetings a week with their stressed out single mother yelling at them, or making them shutup for a snooty elder whose 'bible study' is more important
Do I think that God is going to torment babies ? No. It's only the humans who think that he wants them to.
That's going to great extremes God will not judge persons that are not able to decide for themselves what is right and wrong such as infants or children or the mentally retarded and deranged. That's an absurd rush to judgement.
Booker - t. This whole subject is based upon the other question that links up to trying to answer your question in a yes or no response. That question also has it's pros and cons, if the Bible, which most are getting their answers from, is the very word of God, then you have confusion in relationship to what that answer to your question is. If the Bible is a product of man's history spread by word of mouth and written and re-written, then your question is mute.
My answer to your question is based on my belief that the Bible is not from God, is no, it is from man. It is humanly impossible to know about the infinite from a finite mind. I would not think that I am able to get into the mind of such a being as to the why fors of whatever that being is thinking and doing.
Blueblades
I think you are looking at this from the wrong perspective. First, the bible does not address this question. Another good question might be: If salvation comes as a result of human choice to believe, then how would this be fair? babies don't get a choice? Would God force babies to worship Him? I believe:
Romans 9:8 That is, not the children of the flesh are children of God; but the children of the promise are counted for a seed. 9 For this is the word of promise: "At this time I will come and Sarah shall have a son." 10 And not only this, but when Rebekah also had conceived by one, by our father Isaac 11 (for the children had not yet been born, neither had done any good or evil; but that the purpose of God according to election might stand, not of works but of Him who called,)I know, I know,
Romans 9:14
What shall we say then? Is there not unrighteousness with God? Let it not be! 15 For He said to Moses, "I will have mercy on whom I will have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I will have compassion." 16 So then it is not of the one willing, nor of the one running, but of God, the One showing mercy.D Dog
smellsgood
No, there's always been what was called the age of "accountability" or something like that.
Can you show me that in the bible?
D Dog
DD: Can you show me that in the bible?
smellsgood: I'm just saying what I have heard related w/ regard to children. I don't know exactly where they get it.
I think they mean something like when one is able to willfully choose right from wrong...something like that.
What are your ideas?
