DC, all but gave directions to the JWD site (page 3)

gymbob

One of the real problems I saw with the organization (in the magazines or in the talks) was that it needs to 'put-up or shut-up', it NEVER comes out and says, "This is what apostates are saying, and THIS is why it's false...." The reason why they don't, is because they CAN'T! They're trying to defend a position that's undefendable, and it's the bases for making the DA rule. Hell, they don't even try to defend it with the scriptures. Just, "DON'T READ APOSTATE LITERATURE OR TALK TO THEM".

It's like some little guy who always comes down to the local basketball court talking about how he can beat anybody one-on-one, but he NEVER DOES! he just keeps saying he can, and eventially, nobody pays attention to him anymore.

If you got game Brooklyn, BRING IT! (Let's TALK about it!) Otherwise shut-up and stay on the porch. GYMBB

juni

If you have honest questions and no one in the org. will answer them or you feel intimidated by asking - a lot of people are going to do their own homework. Internet is a great source. Let the facts speak for themselves.

Juni

ocsrf

Ocsrf, these were my notes at the DC regarding researching info on JW's...
11:10 Delivered from the trap of the Birdcatcher - *** APOSTATE ALERT!!! ***
Satan is the Great Birdcatcher, always looking for a way to catch JW's. How does he do this?
Satan uses four methods:
1) Fear of man
2) Materialism - Get Rich Quick Schemes - speaker failed to mention any examples.
3) Entertainment
4) Personal differences and divisions
Other traps - Satan is cunning, he tries to ban the work - case of Ohio v Stratton mentioned (where JW's had to get a permit to preach)
DEMONSTRATION: A brother decides to search on the Internet for progress reports on the JW Hurrican Katrina relief work. He uses a search engine (not specified which search engine) and finds an article.
Then he says, "What's this? Negative talk about the Governing Body? I don't need this, the society mentioned about apostates opposing us on the Internet. I think I'll go to the official website of the Watchower"
SIDE NOTE: The mention of searching for JW news articles on the Internet AND the mention of the brother finding NEGATIVE TALK ABOUT THE GOVERNING BODY is the FIRST example I have ever heard given of what a witness could find on the Internet about JW's and not just the usual "half-truths and apostate lies" mentioned.
It seems there is some desperation there - how many witnesses must have found out negative things concerning the Governing Body?

Thank you, never was much for taking notes and now that I don't buy into it, I am even worst about doing it; however, I will say, I was more tempted than ever, but for the other reason and that is to blow wholes in their arguments. Perhaps you can post the "Resolution" I think many would find that of interest, especially point 10. OC

katiekitten

I have my doubts most of the witnesses who get onto these sites simply stumble on them by accident. I first had my doubts...then I researched.

Absolutely - me too.

And I think the REAL problem is that people are leaving because of their own thought processes, then later on they are finding corroboration for what they had been thinking for years on 'apostate' websites.

The society would love it if all the leavers could be blamed on apostates, but alas no. Everyone I know personally who left, left first for their own reasons, then many years later did some research to back up their gut instincts.

undercover

DEMONSTRATION: A brother decides to search on the Internet for progress reports on the JW Hurrican Katrina relief work. He uses a search engine (not specified which search engine) and finds an article.
Then he says, "What's this? Negative talk about the Governing Body? I don't need this, the society mentioned about apostates opposing us on the Internet. I think I'll go to the official website of the Watchower"

...where there was little or no mention of the relief work for Hurricane Katrina.

They've managed to kill three birds with one stone with this talk and demo. Porn is bad, the Internet is bad and don't question the Governing Body.

I mentioned on another thread that I think they are highlighting porn as an issue because to most conservative, religious types, porn is bad. So to hear the WTS go on about it doesn't raise any eyebrows, they are rightfully concerned that some people are letting it into their lives. But the underlying message is, "Don't use the Internet too much" How best to avoid porn? Stay away from the source...the source being the Internet for most people these days.

It could also be the groundwork for calling anything that is "apostate" in nature to be labeled "spiritual pornography". If they create a auro of disgustedness around anything that questions the WTS, then it may help keep people from relying on the Internet to search out answers to their doubts. For years, the word "apostate" worked to keep most JWs in line. That isn't working so well anymore, so they've got to find another way to keep the dubs in line. Take another word and redefine it to meet your needs just like happened with the word "apostate". And if necessary, those who admit to finding out about negative things about the WTS by use of the Internet could be DFd for purposely viewing "spiritual pornography".

yaddayadda

I already had doubts before searching the net. I knew something was screwy with the whole chronology, 1914 thing when they changed the 'generation' understanding in 1995. That tipped me over the edge. I knew there were no answers to be found in the Society's own publications so I sought out information elsewhere, simple as that. The internet just seemed like a giant online library to me so why not use it? I trusted myself to sift the bullshit from the truth and I've discovered that my trust was not ill-founded (eg, there is just as much bullshit on this website than there is truth). That's why they are so dumb to continually demonise the internet like this. Those who have doubts and are not totally sucked in by the Society's cultish warning to avoid all alternative sources of information on JW belief will start to realise that there is something going on, that there is an abundance of information out there on the internet to be found, being naturally curious, they won't be able to resist having a peek.

itsallgoodnow

One of the real problems I saw with the organization (in the magazines or in the talks) was that it needs to 'put-up or shut-up', it NEVER comes out and says, "This is what apostates are saying, and THIS is why it's false...." The reason why they don't, is because they CAN'T! They're trying to defend a position that's undefendable, and it's the bases for making the DA rule. Hell, they don't even try to defend it with the scriptures. Just, "DON'T READ APOSTATE LITERATURE OR TALK TO THEM".
It's like some little guy who always comes down to the local basketball court talking about how he can beat anybody one-on-one, but he NEVER DOES! he just keeps saying he can, and eventially, nobody pays attention to him anymore.
If you got game Brooklyn, BRING IT! (Let's TALK about it!) Otherwise shut-up and stay on the porch. GYMBB

ABSOLUTELY. That gets me every time I hear them start up about it. They are so weak it's not funny. All they can do is bully ignorant people and shut down any chance of open debate.

drew sagan

I too saw this part this past weekend and YES YES YES!! they did have a computer on the stage. Some of my favorite quotes include:
"hmmm let me just do a search for Jehovah's Witnesses"
"Let me see here.... umm... oh no! what is this..?? IT's APOSTATE!"
"I feel dirty, I have to go talk to the Elders about this" (no lie those where the exact words)

One hell of a part, somebody has to go to a convention and get this on tape then put it up on this website.

itsallgoodnow

". And if necessary, those who admit to finding out about negative things about the WTS by use of the Internet could be DFd for purposely viewing "spiritual pornography".

They do that anyway. They like to "ridicule" the internet, treat it like only stupid people would actually use it to learn anything. I haven't heard them refer to it as the Information Highway lately. It's always in a negative way.

They are just trying to make it more scary for the ones that are ignorant enough to obey them in the first place. So they don't leave, too.

I think people just do what they do, and the society has less of an affect on what people will or won't do than ever before.

Axelspeed

"hmmm let me just do a search for Jehovah's Witnesses"

If that was the exact quote, it is as about as close to a personal invitation to "search" as you can get. Somebody at headquarters is either very naive or very smart. You be the judge.

Axel

DC, all but gave directions to the JWD site

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