Is all religion just about personal egotism?

by jambon1 13 Replies latest jw friends

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  jambon1

  As an atheist, I feel like I am coming to terms with my mortality. One day I will die, just like the beasts of the field.

  It has lead me to think about the whole concept of religion, a personal god, one who approves or disapproves of our individual actions.

  Is`nt it all really just an egotistical excersise? Is`nt it the case that people just cant handle the fact that this is all there is?

  Dont get me wrong, I have issues with the fact that I cant get my head around not being created. My body attests to this being the case. Some things in nature do as well. Nevertheless, world conditions and natural disasters negate the belief in a loving, personal, creator. Im confused about that.

  When I was in the org I heard an experience at the district assembly. It was about a sister who needed a certain amount of money to pay a bill - for example £64.73. That week, just as she was at the point of eating the dust from the ground a household bill rebate came through the door. It was for £64.73!! Que the audience, lots of ooohhh's and aaahhhh's.

  So here, god gave this sister enough money to run her car or whatever but he deprives an entire continent of decent food, bakes them (and their crops) to death in the sun and then violently destroys them all with a tsunami. I`m sorry but it just does`nt stand up to basic logic.

  Please do not misunderstand me, I never want to destroy faith. If you`ve got it then good for you, really. You may perhaps, be able to explain such things more succinctly than me.

  Is it really not just the case that we cant accept our own mortality?

  Shaping our lives around a god who cares about some, but not for others just does`nt make sense to me.
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  nicolaou

  Religion is not just about egotism. Religious devotion has given meaning to the lives of millions and created many truly altruistic individuals. Atheism can do the same. We all have to find our own way of explaining the inconsistencies we see around us just as you have done in your example.

  I happen to agree with you but I'm sure some will come to this thread and try to explain away God's inconsistent behaviour as you so clearly described it. I'm still waiting for such an explanation to satisfy me.

  Nice topic jambon
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  Undecided

  I'm beginning to accept death also, but still I would like to know why we are here. What is the purpose of life other than making more life. How did everything get started, or when even. I can't perceive time not having a beginning. I think we must have been designed and created by something, but where did that something come from? I'm beginning to think religion does have a place in life but it also has created so much suffering and death that I don't trust it. I guess I will go to my grave wondering about all this stuff.

  Ken P.
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  Sad emo

  Good post jambon and good reply nicolau.

  I'm a believer and am inclined to agree with you too, to an extent at least. I believe there are all kinds of reasons - wanting to believe in an afterlife, 'fire insurance', whatever, but there are genuine folks who follow religion out of love and sincere belief (possibly based on a personal experience).

  I'm inclined to ask too, is it personal egotism - or is it more fear which is at the root? Fear that there's nothing beyond? Fear that if there is a God, He will punish us if we don't do as He says? Are egotism and fear closely linked?

  I'm not going to pretend I can answer the selectively caring God question, I don't think anyone will have the correct answer this side of eternity. My personal view fwiw is that God does care about everyone, even though He doesn't directly intervene on everything that happens.
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  mouthy

  My personal view is that God does care about everyone, even though He doesn't directly intervene on everything that happens.

  I agree with the above ...As I have said before I think religion IS a divider. I DO believe in the Creator ...Whom I believe is Jesus....Some might think I am lose in the head by saying THAT PERSONAL RELATIONSHIP I have with God is WONDERFUL!!! Yes I have quite lengthy discussions with THEM ---when I see such terrible things happening .. LIke asking why dont you DO something about this you have the power??...Then I think well if I am made in THEIR image. And I gave someone a house & said here look after it - it is yours, I will come by every so often & water the grass that I planted when I gave it to you, I will send the heat to let it grow.But I wont come visit unless I am invited. There is NOTHING we cannot do. EXCEPT prolong out lives.Death is a SURE thing. I think the earth has been so misused by all of us it is wearing out. And just as GOD said on "earth you will have tribulation".He told the truth in that statement.But when I tell folks i want to GO HOME( heaven) EVERYONE says "Oh you shouldnt say that " WHY?????? I believe this is a testing ground. Can we LOVE one another ,?? which I believe is the proving point of a relationship... Just my 2 cents I know you will say she is NUTS!!!! You wont be the first to say that neither the last.
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  dido

  Undecided- i have the same thought`s as you, i`m still not sure about how and why we are here, that`s one of the reasons i stayed a JW for so long, as they seemed to have the best explanation of it all. Now, because i have studied them and not the `truth`, i can`t accept that God, if there is one, would allow them to be his people, with their track record. It would be nice to know the real `truth` about life, and i am still waiting and looking for answers, if there are any that is!
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  jambon1

  Just my 2 cents I know you will say she is NUTS!!!! You wont be the first to say that neither the last.

  Mouthy - you are nuts!

  Just kiddin. You make some valid points but the suffering in this world ALWAYS gets me doubting everything. Some of it has been so horible it is unspeakable. I have kids and I see their beuty and then I think - 'one day, you could be taken away from me'. Its disturbing what could hapen.

  I`m best leaving it there.

  Best,

  J
• 

  poppers

  Is it really not just the case that we cant accept our own mortality?

  I'm inclined to ask too, is it personal egotism - or is it more fear which is at the root? Fear that there's nothing beyond? Fear that if there is a God, He will punish us if we don't do as He says? Are egotism and fear closely linked?

  Both excellent questions, and get to the root of suffering, which is "ego", the personalized sense of self. We think we exist as separate and distinct entities, and being separate creates a deep sense of fear. We fear that which is separate because it can pose a threat to our existence, so a personal mortality is created and then feared.

  Religion caters to this personalized sense of self by offering answers, which to many appeals to the ego sense. They offer beliefs to waylay fears about the future if only you abide by such and such dictates, or believe in this, that, or the other deity and perform/participate in established rituals.

  What religion fails to do, for the most part, is question the existence of the ego sense to determine whether or not it actually exists. The main reason they don't do this is ignorance themselves of the reality of the ego sense. Instead, they use the power of beliefs and the ensuing fear attached to the dropping of beliefs to keep people under their control. amd with control comes power. Power is very intoxicating to the ego sense.

  To subvert the control and power of the ego sense one must question its existence. This goes directly to the heart of the problem. Ask yourself "What am I really?" and then look. See if you can find a separate and distinct entity. Look sincerely and see if "I" really exist beyond just ideas of "me". Once you see for yourself that "you" are nothing but a collection of ideas that are clung to the egoic sense begins to crumble. What is left is the awareness in which those ideas arise. This natural state of awareness is what you actually are, and it is not separate from anything else. "YOU" are seen to be whole, and with wholeness fear evaporates.

  The fear of not following through with this investigation arises solely from the ego sense, because the ego fears its own dissolution - it is afraid of what it will find. Instead, it will cling to its own beliefs, thus ensuring its own survival.
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  Siddhashunyata
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  mouthy

  Mouthy - you are nuts!

  Just kiddin. You make some valid points but the suffering in this world ALWAYS gets me doubting everything. Some of it has been so horible it is unspeakable. I have kids and I see their beuty and then I think - 'one day, you could be taken away from me'. Its disturbing what could hapen.

  I`m best leaving it there.

  JAM!!! So you wanted to be the last!!!!!But you wont be____Before I kick the Bucket loads & loads will say that also. Some even Stronger than that ...LOL Yes when you look at the adorable kids & think ONE DAY!! maybe they will be taken>> I had 3 taken in death >>1 to the watchtower makes> 4.... But it is the promise of GOD that makes me hang on to "I will see them again" I would rather be wrong in every ones eyes now & right in Gods , because If I am wrong & there is No promise I wont know it will I ???? But if I AM right ----hey how wonderful to see my precious Melanie- Alan, Faith, MY KIDS that died Again........ Praying that Annmarie in the Watchtower...will be with us eventually....