I accuse my wife of apostacy. Hilarity ensues.

under_believer

This one ranged all over the place. I post these because I am hoping someone can give me additional advice.

WIFE: Why didn't you want to read the Daily Text to the kids?

ME: Because it said that Christians shouldn't help others because they will just get sick and die again, and only God's Kingdom can help people permanently.

WIFE: Well, isn't that true?

ME: What? No. Jesus healed people resurrected them, etc. even though he knew they'd get sick and die again, right?

WIFE: Yes. The text acknowledged that, but said that Jesus' main work was preaching.

ME: So you're saying that you agree with the Society's opinion that we shouldn't do any charitable works, that helping people "in this system" is pointless, because only the Kingdom can save people permanently?

WIFE: Well...

ME (interrupting): We are helped out by <such and such a charitable service which I cannot disclose at this time>, what if they all became Witnesses? Who would help people in <specified situation>? Do you not appreciate that help?

WIFE: Yes, I do.

ME: So only non-Witnesses should help people other than Kingdom preaching? And Jehovah will destroy them for that?

WIFE: We don't know who will be destroyed and who will live at Armageddon.

ME: The Society says they do. They say only baptized Witnesses and their dependent children will survive.

WIFE: Well, I was talking about this with my mom [also a Witness]. We really don't know.

ME: Wrong. The Society really does say they know. I can prove it [she has learned that when I say this, there is no point in disagreeing because I will have the citations at hand]. The only uncertainty the Society allows in this equation is that perhaps not all baptized Witnesses will make it. Certainly not that some "worldly" people will.

WIFE: The Bible really isn't conclusive on that point, though.

ME: Saying that makes you an apostate. How do you like being an apostate? Why don't you go tell that to the elders and see what they think?

WIFE: STOP IT! You are just trying to tear down my faith. You always do this right before meetings.

ME: Okay, A, who brought this up? And B, this tears down your faith in what? The Society's interpretations? Or the Bible and God? Which faith is more important?

KIDS: [interrupt]

...Just thought I'd share that little exchange. Fun times were had by all.

damselfly

I think that I would go insane if I had to live thru a sitauation like that, knowing what I know now.

Dams

IP_SEC

I dont know your exact circumstances, but sometimes a nod and a wink is better than accusing a faithful dub of being an apostate. Thats probably almost as offensive/grating to her as me hearing the question asked: "Are all men dangerous to women and children?"

Warlock

This must have been "heated exchange about religion with spouse" weekend. Mine is waaaaaayyyyy to long to post here, but it had to do with going to the meeting on Sunday. Which we didn't, by the way.

As I have posted before, I was taught that ONLY J.W.'s were going to survive the end, which is why we want people to come out of "Babylon the Great".

If not, then, what is the point?

Those of us here who became J.W.'s did so because we were told this was the ONLY road to salvation. You can't soften that up now!

Warlock

drew sagan

Sorry if this sounds a little rude but I personally never would treat my wife like that. Over the past 2 years I have slowly worked with her, helping her see the problems of the WTS. That hard work and respect has kept our marriage strong and has carried us both out of the organization.
I feel the best way to help loved ones is to continue to show them kindness and never tear down their belief system, which I think is what you are doing. How can you expect your wife to listen to you if you continue to dominate her like that? Love, kindness, tenderness.
The way you relate it to me it seems like you won't have a marriage much longer.
Sorry, but not all x-jws get it right. I thought you might need a wake up call. I'm not trying to ridicule you, I just have been through the same thing and know that it could never have been done the way you are doing it.
-drew

IP_SEC

Im with you drew.

under_believer

Drew and IP_SEC, thanks for your responses. They are exactly the kind of input I need.
I appreciate your candor. And it's possible that you're right, though the exchange is out of context of our marriage as a whole, and you are missing the way that she frequently "dominates" me back, and the fact that we've always been one of those couples that discusses (argues) a lot. She is an extremely controlling individual with anger problems (and I was able to digest the idea of saying these things about her only after she pointed them out to me herself). I am not saying that I don't have any faults, and we generally accept each other's imperfections.
At the same time, my wife is not your wife--I'm not sure what your wife's personality is like, but if I took the approach you did with your wife (and I've read every one of your posts, at least from the time you were planning on going back deep into the org and becoming an elder... CONGRATULATIONS by the way, Drew, you are really the man for getting your wife and yourself out and I mean that) I would never get anywhere with her, guaranteed.
I dunno, it's a fine line to walk, I guess. I don't want to tear down her belief system, but on the other hand it's a ridiculous belief system and there are constant demands for me to live up to my Society-assigned role--that of the "spiritual head". When I have severe allergic reactions to certain daily texts, Witness practices, whole books (like Revelation) and so on, I can either just say "no" and frustrate her with no explanations, or I can explain to her why I can't in good conscience put certain ideas into my young kids' heads.

Severus

I have this discussion with my wife all the time (will non-JWs survive Armageddon?).

She is almost dogmatic that Jehovah "will read hearts" and that many pass through to paradise who are not associated with JWs.

When shown the publications, she will brush off printed word for what she "feels" is true. This is actually a common opinion among JWs even though the Society is very clear about this point.

However, there is commonly relief when a non-JW dies that the person will be resurrected--almost an assumption--since they wll not have to be executed in Jehovah's judgement.

carla

While I agree with Drew in that being the ideal way to do things, there are those out there that will not tolerate even one negative thing said about the wt. I'm amazed Drew if you have never had an actual argument with your wife. Some would say that is not a real marriage either. It is unnatural to never ever have a disagreement with someone you live with and learn how to get on afterwards.

To try to reason with some jw's is nearly impossible. How can you discuss when not agreeing with the wt makes you evil. It is difficult to start a conversation with someone who is paranoid. You can't have any discussion unless you start out dishonestly by saying you agree to a point or something to that effect then try and turn the tables on them.

What some non jw's and exjw's like to do is just what the wt says, 'our way is the best for everybody'. Drew you should have a talk with Gary Buss. He used a different method. Just because the way you used worked with your wife does not mean it is the only way or will work for everybody. Some of us have done the nicey nice routine to death. For what? To the jw they go along thinking everything is hunky-dory in life when the spouse knows the delusional state they are really living in. Is that honest to your spouse? The jw happily goes along in life abandoning family and responsiblities and the non jw spouse has a right to be upset. How it is handled is the question. There is no one answer otherwise we would have no need for this board and the many, many others like it. The one answer would suffice. You would have the magic bullet we all have been looking for.

Drew isn't your wife still going anyway? You too? Until you help your spouse has completely escaped the wt both physically, mentally, spiritually and emotionally I don't think you should be so harsh on others.

carla 'of the knows how those weekends can go class'

under_believer

I want to stress a couple of things here:
* All viewpoints are welcome, including (perhaps especially?) critical ones.
* I was using the word "hilarity" in an ironic sense. I am not being harsh with and then laughing at my wife. I love her very much. If I didn't I'd be out of here and we'd be discussing custody at this point.
She did need to realize, though, that what she was saying technically qualifies as apostacy.

I accuse my wife of apostacy. Hilarity ensues.

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