by happysunshine 17 Replies latest jw friends
Some scriptures for your argument:
Love is the greatest commandment Mark 12:30-31
He who is without sin, cast the first stone. John 8:3-11
Jesus ate with publicans and sinners Matthew 9:9-11, Matthew 11:19, Mark 2:14-16, Luke 5:29-31, Luke 15:1-2
Tenderly searching out the lost sheep Luke 15:3-7
The prodigal son was eagerly embraced by his father Luke 15:29
Do good even to your enemies, don't just love your friends Matthew 5:46-47
Disfellowshipping articles, Quotes:
My best friend who brought me in to the Org all those many decades ago use to come by and see me for lunch once a week.
As much as I tried to avoid the subject of religion and particularly what is wrong with his, Johnny and I invariably ended up having one of those "discussions".
It is the elephant in the room.
The Society knows this.
When you love somebody and you have a falling out there can be no mending until the rift is closed.
Your sense of Reality, your personal affinity and all of your communications depend on seeing things from the same viewpoint.
It really isn't possible nor is it realistic to remain marginally intimate with people who have delusional thinking at the core of their world view.
I beg to disagree, Terry. I maintain relationships with all kinds of people with various levels of delusion, right up to and including my Schizophrenic son. The trick is to enter their delusion and speak in the vernacular they understand.
I understand why you might have difficulty, with your worldview.
jgnat- I admire the direction you are taking with things.
But to be honest, I don't know if I have the strength to do that. I suffered a lot growing up. I have a new life now, in every way made completely separate from them since 10 years ago. I have a lot of responsibilities now with my new family and career. I believe part of the reason I made it this far is because I knew when to take a step back.
I am worried about losing my mental peace if I take the kind of open arms approach I believe you are suggesting, because chances are they will do something hurtful to me based on WTS training. I am extremely upset about the whole thing. I have had an overall benevolent approach to the whole issue up until 5 years ago. I made limited ventures into their world, with mixed results, but eventually they made the WTS a major issue. It was very uncomfortable, because we really liked each other, and we all saw the WTS issue coming, and it was like waiting for the other shoe to drop. I was struggling so hard to improve my life, and I could only take so much shit from them.
Since 5 years ago, I have taken a much more standoffish approach. Recently, I make no efforts to contact them. Obviously, it weighs very heavy on my mind, particularly with recent developments in my life. But a recent e-mail I got had a nasty undertone to it that made me very upset, considering recent events in our family.
Now, I would just like to clear things up, and move on emotionally and socially in my life. I need to do this for several reasons. I will be fair about it, but I will say what I feel needs to be said, and I will say it very clearly. And I will make it clear to anyone else who may be involved. Therefore the request in my original post for clear outline of 'reasons'. They say whatever they want to me for years, and I am the one who has to carry the burden and play diplomat. Well, now I feel it would be healthy to clear that up.
Again, I think what you are doing is great. And I am curious about it. I just don't think its safe for me to do that.
Terry's comments made me think about how many people don't have to have the same world view to have intimacy, but do need to be comfortable with the same paradigm of communication.
Reminds me of a letter I wrote to my family a few years ago. But, to directly answer your question looks at the quotes below from the KM of 08/02:
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To All My Practicing Jehovah Witness Family Members:
I've recently come in contact with the August 2002 Kingdom Ministry, entitled "Display Christian Loyalty When a Relative is Disfellowshipped." Admittedly this article isn’t "new light" it is just re-enforcing the organizations hard-line position on the treatment of disfellowshipped / disassocated people. In view of the below listed quotes from the article, I’m letting you know that you don't have to worry about how to deal with me, or concern yourself about being put in a compromising position because Im consciously cutting you off - permanently.
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"2. ...Hence, we also avoid social fellowship with an expelled person. This would rule out joining him in a picnic, party, or trip to the shops or theatre or sitting down to a meal with him either in the home or at a restaurant.
"5. ...The fact is that when a Christian gives himself over to sin and has to be disfellowshiped, he forfeits much: his approved standing with God;.. sweet fellowship with the brothers, including much of the association he had with Christian relatives."
"9. ..."The situation is different if the disfellowshipped or disassociated one is a relative living, outside the immediate family circle and home," states The Watchtower of April 15, 1988, page 28. "It might be possible to have almost no contact at all with the relative. Even if there were some family matters requiring contact, this certainly would be kept to a minimum," in harmony with the divine injunction to "quit mixing in company with anyone" who is guilty of sinning unrepentantly. (1 Cor. 5:11) Loyal Christians should strive to avoid needless association with such a relative, even keeping business dealings to an absolute minimum."
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Although the article says "...Even if there were some family matters requiring contact, this certainly would be kept to a minimum" I don’t even want any minimum contact with you. I refuse to be accepted on a part time or emergency type basis. Either you accept whole or don’t accept me at all. My stance includes funerals, financial woes, illnesses, etc.
I understand how you have to be loyal to your organization so I do not expect you to change. In fact, you guys belong there. As a conscientious, responsible man who worked and has taken care of my family, giving my children what I never had, I can’t not be in the company of people who consider me worthy of destruction, less of a person, thinks I need some type of help, or am someone who "gives himself over to sin ". With that in mind, I consider your company anything but "sweet fellowship." Now that I’m on the outside looking in, I cant believe you guys think you are the standard of righteousness - you are far from it.
The mistaken belief of the organization is that shunning is an act of love that will help someone turn from their evil ways. Well let me reassure you that I will NEVER come back to the organization, I see it for what it is and I don’t want any part of it. The views that you are forced to live by only makes me resent the fact that I was ever associated with such an organization. In fact, one of my BIGGEST regrets in life was counseling [my wife] while I was an Elder years ago, when her mother was disfellowshipped, advising her that she shouldn’t call her mother so often. I’m so grateful that [my wife] had enough sense to ignore me.
I’ve received a few phone call from some of you guys from time to time, telling me about some family or medical situation and all the while you kept mentioning the specific reason you called. What kind of conversation is that? Where every other sentence is "well, the only reason I’m calling is because..." It’s as if someone else was on the other end monitoring the phone call making sure that you don’t call me for a normal reason, like to see how I’m doing. Ill never forget how Moms was preaching (I call it harassing) [my wife] while I was away in the Army during basic training, saying in effect ‘you have to be more loyal to the organization than to [me], etc. And how she called the night before [my baby sisters] wedding telling [my wife] she don’t think it would be a good idea for us to come to the reception because some of the friends would walk out, etc. Well, you don’t ever have to do that again, because I’m telling you now – Don’t ever call my house for anything.
I would never tell my kids not to talk to you guys, but if you ever talk to my kids, don’t dare preach to them. If you think I’m part of the ‘Evil Slave Class’ now, let me catch you preaching to my children. Its bad enough that we have another generation of J-Dub kids thinking they are better than the others by being in the organization.
I wouldn’t mind if my children joined any other religion but the J-Dubs. Any religion that break ups families because one members doesn’t believe the same myth as you is evil. Shunning takes place in most religions and I think the practice is counter productive, If not out right against all human decency.
You fault me for joining the Military, but I see how the Military rescued my mother when my father died. The Military sent my Moms and each child a check every month after his death. In fact Moms is still benefiting from my fathers pension right now, who knows what other benefits she received. I just want the same benefits for my family. But for me joining the Military, in a non-combatant occupation, it is a major spiritual offense. That reasoning seems very inconsistent. When I joined the Military I had to put someone besides my wife and kids down as a beneficiary, so I naturally picked my mother. Now I have to take her name off - I can’t imagine her speaking to me "to an absolute minimum" while I’m alive and receiving any benefits from me through my death. Speaking of such, if me and any one in my family dies please don’t bother attending the funeral. If you cant talk to me while I’m alive don’t bother showing your appearance of support later on.
For those of you who says "didn’t you know what would happen when you joined the Military." I say, yes I knew the consequences, but you guys have taken the whole thing to another level, going beyond the rules (I know because I had/still have access to the official rules.) Now that I’ve taken a closer examination, I see that the position the organization takes towards the disfellowshipped / disassocated ones is really a smoke screen in my situation because it has more to do with our dysfunctional family than with the mad-made rules.
Speaking of man-made rules, I find the organization more culpable than it members, because they have all the control. All they have to do is say “jump” and the members will say “how high!” I mean, if the organization says Ok you can talk to disfellowship ones, you would go along with it, just like last year when they said in a Question From Readers that you can pray for disfellowship ones. It seems that you have to wait on them to dictate how you will deal with your family.
It takes an extremely forgiving and humble person to want to be in the company of people who pity them and view them as dangerous. I’m not that one. I’ve came too far in life to let someone browbeat or try an shame me into submission. The religious blackmail is not working.
To those who say I’m demonized, evil , mean spirited, etc. - So be it. If you have to vilify me in order for you to justify your actions let it be. The organization has seen fit to re-enforce their stand, which prompts me to re-enforce mine. Thus, no hard feelings, we are both doing what we have to do to survive. For those of you who say "but, he knows better" I say - Yes, I know better that’s why I left. For those who say "I love you" - Please don’t ever say such a thing. You have no concept of what love really is. Love is not phony hugs or forced greetings - its unconditional acceptance.
In closing, you may say why such anger? I said why not. I can’t sit down and express myself to you in person, because it’ll result in an argument. And since I don’t have any destructive habits to release my frustration i.e drinking or drugging, writing is my outlet of choice. I know that the majority of people that are address in this letter won’t read pass the first paragraph, if any part of this letter, but I’m feeling good about releasing my feelings, writing is truly therapeutic. And since I’m not hiding from my pass I’m free to write the truth about my feelings.
Take care, it was nice knowing you, the memories were grand, but I don’t live in the pass, in the future, or for other people/organization.
Larry
Happy - I apply jgnat's approach of
I maintain relationships with all kinds of people with various levels of delusion
A friend of mine who is a therapist said that the way to work thru this is to determine what is more hurtful, a life w/ your family members who are JWs or a life w/o them. If you determine that being w/o them is too much to handle, then just the same as they will try to set rules for you, you get to set rules for them. In the end it may not work, but you will know in your heart of hearts that you tried and that it is their loss.
Good luck.
Oh, I'm not advocating a run in to their arms hoping to catch you. You don't need to be exposed to any more hurt.
I got the impression from your question is that you want to somehow argue your case that they SHOULDN'T be SHUNNING you. All I am saying if you are going to argue the point, is to take the positive argument, they SHOULD be LOVING you.
All that being said, some people can't give you what you need. One of the delusional people I maintain a relationship with is my mom. She has bipolar disorder, and is extremely self-centred. I maintain a long distance, superficial relationship. This seems to satisfy both of us best. I look elsewhere for the mothering. I didn't declare my mental separation from her, though. That would have been needlessly hurtful. I just did it. I started writing more and visiting less. She likes it.
Now, I would just like to clear things up, and move on emotionally and socially in my life. I need to do this for several reasons. I will be fair about it, but I will say what I feel needs to be said, and I will say it very clearly... They say whatever they want to me for years, and I am the one who has to carry the burden and play diplomat. Well, now I feel it would be healthy to clear that up.
I suggest you need two documents. One is to unburden the hurt and slights you have suffered over the years. That document is for you. The second might be a "charter of family freedoms", where you declare what will be acceptable behavior. Include consequences, up to counter-shunning. You may or may not send it, depending on how thick-headed your relatives are.
Why delve in to the WT literature? It's stupid anyways and just tangles you back in to the language and the excuses they use to justify their behavior.
