I kinda agree with Kid-A tho I don't believe the bible to be a bunch of fairy tales . The people that masterminded the whole thing are complete idiots . I can't stand to hear the zionist movement here in the US on TV. They go off on how supporting the nation of Israel is part of Gods plan here . I'm like, you are friggen stupid....
A Short History of the Palestinian Israeli Crisis
by MegaDude 28 Replies latest jw friends
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searcher
It seems like a chess game where the nations of the world are more interested in gaining some sort of political advantage rather than helping be a mediator of peace and healing in such a war torn area as a top priority.
So what else is new?
Name one country that has ever done anything that has been for any other reason than political advantage.
Sad but true that nations only, at base, consider themselves, and polititians and political parties within those countries only consider themselves.
Also, IMO, it's time that people evolved past the need for religious props and justifications and got down to real living.
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heathen
Also, IMO, it's time that people evolved past the need for religious props and justifications and got down to real living.
preaching to the chior there . For a christian to support judaism or any other form of worship is blaspheme . The jews could have melded with the arabs instead of getting greedy and pushy . That's the nature of people , you give them a foot and they want a mile . I guess the only way they can settle it now is to kill each other off in ethnic clensing which is what this whole thing was supposed to avoid .
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The Mayor of Turiwhate
An interesting comment is made in the website listed by Megadude - i.e "Background to the Israel - Palestine Crisis" by Stephen R. Shalom
Under the heading "How can terrorists be given a state?", he makes a good point:
"If peope whose independence movements use terrorism are not entitled to a state, then many current-day states would be illegitimate, not the least of them being Israel." (Italics added).
Ironically, the origins of the Israeli Defence Force were as a terrorist organisation - both against the British Administration and against the Arab population.
(One such instance out of very many was the blowing up of the King David Hotel, which housed the British Administration. Explosives were packed into milk churns, and hidden amongst the morning's milk delivery. That was always off-loaded into the hotel's basement - the ideal place from which to demolish the building.It worked ! The entire British Administration was taken out in one go).
Ironic - when it is used against you, it is called terrorism - but when you did it yourself, you were "fighting for freedom." (This applies in all such conflicts - not just the Arab / Israeli one).
Has there ever been a conflict in which one side is totally squeaky clean?
Incidentally, there is an interesting discussion of this issue from an alternative Jewish viewpoint on the website www.cactus48.com
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heathen
I think the big problem here is that by supporting Israel has damaged the US in dealing with the Arabs and we rely on them for the oil we need right now . I saw the show on pirates (THC) where they said something like the big threat is the terrorists getting ahold of a vessel carrying high explosive fuels and blowing it up that would amount to a nuclear explosion . Israel could not exist without support from the west or europe . I just bet when the smoke clears over there after this latest conflict it will be US British troops in control of the region .
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JW_Researcher
While this is not a political board, and we're not political scientists, I guess we're all entitled to our own limited, media-mediated views of the world.
This came as an e-mail today:ISRAEL AND JERUSALEM FACTS
1. ISRAEL BECAME A STATE IN 1312 B.C., TWO MILLENNIA BEFORE ISLAM;
2. ARAB REFUGEES FROM ISRAEL BEGAN CALLING THEMSELVES "PALESTINIANS" IN 1967, TWO DECADES AFTER (MODERN) ISRAELI STATEHOOD;
3. AFTER CONQUERING THE LAND IN 1272 B.C., JEWS RULED IT FOR A THOUSAND YEARS AND MAINTAINED A CONTINUOUS PRESENCE THERE FOR 3,300 YEARS;
4. FOR OVER 3,300 YEARS, JERUSALEM WAS THE JEWISH CAPITAL. IT WAS NEVER THE CAPITAL OF ANY ARAB OR MUSLIM ENTITY. EVEN UNDER JORDANIAN RULE, (EAST) JERUSALEM WAS NOT MADE THE CAPITAL, AND NO ARAB LEADER CAME TO VISIT IT;
5. JERUSALEM IS MENTIONED OVER 700 TIMES IN THE BIBLE, BUT NOT ONCE IS IT MENTIONED IN THE QUR'AN;
6. KING DAVID ESTABLISHED JERUSALEM AS ISRAEL'S CAPITAL; MOHAMMED NEVER SET FOOT IN IT;
7. JEWS PRAY FACING JERUSALEM; MUSLIMS FACE MECCA. IF THEY ARE BETWEEN THE TWO CITIES, MUSLIMS PRAY FACING MECCA, WITH THEIR BACKS TO JERUSALEM;
8. IN 1948, ARAB LEADERS URGED THEIR PEOPLE TO LEAVE, PROMISING TO CLEANSE THE LAND OF JEWISH PRESENCE. 68% OF THEM FLED WITHOUT EVER SETTING EYES ON AN ISRAELI SOLDIER;
9. VIRTUALLY THE ENTIRE JEWISH POPULATION OF MUSLIM COUNTRIES HAD TO FLEE AS
THE RESULT OF VIOLENCE AND POGROMS;
10. SOME 630,000 ARABS LEFT ISRAEL IN 1948, WHILE CLOSE TO A MILLION JEWS WERE FORCED TO LEAVE THE MUSLIM COUNTRIES;
11. IN SPITE OF THE VAST TERRITORIES AT THEIR DISPOSAL, ARAB REFUGESS WERE DELIBERATELY PREVENTED FROM ASSIMILATING INTO THEIR HOST COUNTRIES. OF 100 MILLION REFUGEES FOLLOWING WORLD WAR 2, THEY ARE THE ONLY GROUP TO HAVE NEVER INTEGRATED WITH THEIR CORELIGIONISTS. MOST OF THE JEWISH REFUGEES FROM
EUROPE AND ARAB LANDS WERE SETTLED IN ISRAEL, A COUNTRY NO LARGER THAN NEW JERSEY;
12. THERE ARE 22 ARAB COUNTRIES, NOT COUNTING PALESTINE. THERE IS ONLY ONE JEWISH STATE. ARABS STARTED ALL FIVE WARS AGAINST ISRAEL, AND LOST EVERY ONE
OF THEM;
13. FATAH AND HAMAS CONSTITUTIONS STILL CALL FOR THE DESTRUCTION OF ISRAEL.
ISRAEL CEDED MOST OF THE WEST BANK AND ALL OF GAZA TO THE PALESTINIAN AUTHORITY, AND EVEN PROVIDED IT WITH ARMS;
14. DURING THE JORDANIAN OCCUPATION, JEWISH HOLY SITES WERE VANDALIZED AND WERE OFF LIMITS TO JEWS. UNDER ISRAELI RULE, ALL MUSLIM AND CHRISTIAN HOLY SITES ARE ACCESSIBLE TO ALL FAITHS;
15. OUT OF 175 UNITED NATIONS SECURITY COUNCIL RESOLUTIONS UP TO 1990, 97 WERE AGAINST ISRAEL; OUT OF 690 GENERAL ASSEMBLY RESOLUTIONS, 429 WERE AGAINST ISRAEL;
16. THE U.N. WAS SILENT WHEN THE JORDANIANS DESTROYED 58 SYNAGOGUES IN THE OLD CITY OF JERUSALEM. IT REMAINED SILENT WHILE JORDAN SYSTEMATICALLY DESECRATED THE ANCIENT JEWISH CEMETERY ON THE MOUNT OF OLIVES, AND IT REMAINED SILENT WHEN JORDAN ENFORCED APARTHEID LAWS PREVENTING JEWS FROM ACCESSING THE TEMPLE MOUNT AND WESTERN WALL.
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heathen
jw-researcher--- You clearly did not read the article that started this thread as they state the Israelis started the conflicts by invading Arab owned territories . I think they definately did some claim jumping instead of actually buying the land from the Arabs to begin with . I think they started the ethnic clensing .
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JW_Researcher
jw-researcher--- You clearly did not read the article that started this thread
What makes you say that?
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The Mayor of Turiwhate
For an official catalogue of Jewish acts of terrorism 1944 - 1948, an interesting read is found on the website www.doublestandards.org/unbunche.html
This is a report that was prepared for the then newly-appointed UN Commissioner to Palestine, Ralphe Bunche, in October 1948.
He had a direct interest in this matter - his immediate predecessor had been assassinated by Jewish terrorists on 17 September that same year!
Incidentally, monitoring of all Arab radio broadcasts during that time (1947 - 1948) recorded not one instance in which Arab leaders advised their people to flee. On the contrary, Arab leaders encouraged their people to remain where they were.
The flight of Palestine's Arab population followed after an incident that occurred in April, 1948.
Between the ninth and eleventh of April, Arab civilians ( mostly old people, women and children ) in the village of Deir Yassim were murdered by members of the Jewish terrorist organisation, Irgun.
Both sides subsequently inflated the casualty figures. It was said at the time - and believed for decades afterwards - that 254 people were killed. It is now accepted that the actual figure is between 100 and 120 people:
- The Arabs at the time inflated the figures in order to feed hatred against the Jews.
-The Jews deliberately inflated the casualty count in order to frighten the Arabs into fleeing the country. The likes of Manechim Begin (Irgun leader then, and later Israel's Prime Minister) publicly warned the Arabs to expect more Deir Yassims, if they didn't bolt for it now.
Most Arabs may well have fled without every catching sight of an "Israeli" soldier :
- In response to Deir Yassim, they made sure that they got out of the place before they did!
Palestine's Arabs fled the country in response to Jewish terror propaganda, rather than in response to orders from their own leaders. (They say that actions speak louder than words. Deir Yassim left a pretty clear message as to how much the Jews wanted the Arabs to remain!)
It could perhaps be argued which side has the "legal" claim to the land - but even that seems a bit murky.
Neither side, though, should attempt to take the Moral High Ground in this dispute - as neither side has any claim to that!