Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness 597 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  thirdwitness

  A conversation in 2001 with Mr. Oleg Dzioubinski, an information officer at the DPI.
  

  When asked: Is the Watchtower a NGO

  Greg answered: Yes

  When asked: What do you have to show to be an NGO

  Greg: A variety of things including non-profit status and financial statements plus information showing you will promote and adhere to what the UN does.

  When asked: What is an NGO and how does it relate to the UN

  Greg: NGOs have no status and are not part of the UN. They get information such as pamphlets that promote the UN through the DPI. Then using the pamphlets, they are then suppose to inform people what the UN is doing through various ways such as magazines.

  Question: Some friends of mine are concerned over the Watchtower not saying nice things about the UN. Is this a problem?

  Greg: You can criticize the UN. But, we would take offence if they were using the UN name to raise money or they were saying they were a UN organization when they really are not.

  Question: So what is in it for the WTS if they don’t get any money?

  Greg: Well, they are promoting the UN and it helps to show you support the UN in certain areas

  End of converstation.

  Lets review.

  Are NGOs with the DPI part of the UN?

  NOOOOOOO. Not according to Greg. Perhaps he got his information from the fact that the UN/DPI clearly states that NGOs with the DPI are not incorporated into the UN.

  Do NGOs with the DPI have special status? NOOOOOO. Not according to this DPI officer named Greg. Perhaps his information comes from the fact that the UN/DPI clearly says that NGOs with the DPI have no special priviledges etc.

  Must NGOs support the UN in all their endeavors? NOOOOOOO. Not according to Greg. They can even criticize them. And their support can be in certain areas only. Hmmmmm. It seems this quote might apply after all: The organization shall undertake to support the work of the United Nations and to promote knowledge of its principles and activities, in accordance with its own aims and purposes and the nature and scope of its competence and activities.”

  The plot thickens as we see that the WTS did not compromise their neutrality nor did they 'join' the UN. They merely agreed to write information about the UN and that was it. Apparently the support that apostates claim that the WTS agreed to means only the following in accord with what Greg, an officer of the UN himself said:

  When the Watchtower Society began educating the public on the United Nations and it's place in Bible prophecy from 1945 onwards, it could be said that our support was to “furnish corroborating evidence for” to the UN whether we intended to or not — at least in the sense of educating the public in what the UN is, what it is there for, and what it does. The UN wants the public to know about its existence and relevance in the world. That is why even organizations which criticize the UN's failings can remain DPI NGOs — as did the Watchtower Society. Since the DPI is there to disseminate information it is reasonable to believe that the definition “to furnish corroborating evidence for” would be the applicable definition for the word ‘support’ in this case.
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  thirdwitness

  Now lets take a look at the current site of the DPI. My comments in red. It says:

  NGO responsibilities

  Associated NGOs through their information programmes are expected to

  • promote knowledge of the principles and activities of the United Nations. Nothing wrong with this. The WT has done this ever since the UN began.
  • disseminate information about the United Nations and its work to their constituencies Nothing wrong with this. The WT has done this ever since the UN began.
  • keep the DPI/NGO Section informed about their UN-related activities by submitting a report every four years Nothing wrong with this. They could even criticize the UN which the WT did and does.
  • fill out an accreditation form every year Nothing wrong with this. This form only tells who would receive the NGO passes and what fields they were interested in.

  Please note that association of NGOs with DPI does not constitute their incorporation into the United Nations system, nor does it entitle associated organizations or their staff to any kind of privileges, immunities or special status. Nothing wrong with this. This shows the WTS had no status with the UN and was no part of the UN. Even Greg said so.
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  thirdwitness

  Now that we know just what is meant by support lets examine the current criteria for becoming an NGO with the DPI. My comments in red.

  Criteria

  What is an NGO?

  A non-governmental organization (NGO) is a not-for-profit, voluntary citizens’ group, which is organized on a local, national or international level to address issues in support of the public good. Task-oriented and made up of people with common interests, NGOs perform a variety of services and humanitarian functions, bring citizens’ concerns to governments, monitor policy and programme implementation, and encourage participation of civil society stakeholders at the community l evel. They provide analysis and expertise, serve as early warning mechanisms, and help monitor and implement international agreements. Some are organized around specific issues, such as human rights, the environment or health. Their relationship with offices and agencies of the United Nations (UN) system differs depending on their location and their mandate. Notice that the relationship differs depending on their mandate.

  Criteria for association with DPI

  • the NGO must support and respect the principles of the Charter of the UN and have a clear mission statement with those principles Now that we know that support means provide corroborating evidence and that an NGO can even criticize the UN and can give support only in the areas that are in accord with their aims and purposes we can see that there is actually nothing wrong with doing this.
  • the NGO must be recognized nationally or internationally
  • the NGO should operate solely on a not-for-profit basis and have tax-exempt status
  • the NGO must have the commitment and the means to conduct effective information programmes with its constituents about UN activities The WTS has done this ever since the UN began. And in reporting on such activities they can even be critical of the UN without being reprimanded by the DPI.
  • the NGO should have an established record of continuity of work for a minimum of three years and should show promise of sustained activity in the future
  • the NGO should have a satisfactory record of collaboration with UN Information Centres/Services or other parts of the UN System prior to association
  • the NGO should provide an audited annual financial statement, conducted by a qualified, independent accountant
  • the NGO should have statutes/by-laws providing for a transparent process of making decisions, elections of officers and members

  Evaluation and review process

  Associated NGOs undergo a specifically designed evaluation and review process, which is two-fold.

  1. The DPI Committee on NGOs, which decides on association and disassociation, meets twice a year, in June/July and December. The Committee reviews new applications and decides on the status of currently associated NGOs that no longer meet the criteria.
  2. Every four years associated NGOs are required to submit:

  • a completed evaluation form, which is sent to all associated NGOs at the beginning of the four year period
  • a quadrennial report of their UN-related activities
  • at least three samples of their UN-related information materials Since the inception of the UN the WTS has written information about the UN and there is certainly nothing wrong with this.

  My conclusion is that the WTS could still be an NGO with the DPI and it would not be spiritual prostitution. The UN criteria does not compromise our principles when it is realized that support does not mean support all aspects of the UN and its endeavors. In fact, admittedly an NGO can even criticize the UN and what they are doing without being removed as an NGO. It is only within the aims and purposes of the NGO that 'support' is given.

  And yet, our brothers in Bethel upon realizing the new wording of the UN’s criteria for association as a NGO, even though it may not be unscriptural to remain a NGO with the UN chose to withdraw membership rather than risk stumbling others. Is that not commendable and loving on their part? They should be praised for their stance rather than criticized.
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  OUTLAW

  3Rd Witness..What don`t you get?..Nothing..You are not stupid,you are a DirtBag..WBTS should have had nothing to do with the United Nations..You know it ..We know it..What profit in this,is there for you?..A brownie point from the Organization that f**k`s over it`s own religion?..You are a whore.."Birds of a feather Flock together."...OUTLAW
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  AuldSoul

  thirdwitness,

  NONE of the tripe you just spewed changes the fact that you said the Watchtower Society has "NEVER" said the UN was the "unclean" thing. You were incorrect when you said that.

  NONE of the tripe you wrote alters the fact that the WTS was part of the UN/DPI, a secular organization that JWs categorize as contrary to the Bible, disapproved by God, and under judgment by God.

  NONE of the tripe you wrote alters the fact that the WTS "[chose] to join those disapproved by God" in November 1991 and succeeded in joining those disapproved by God in February 1992.

  When you asked Greg in 2001 about the Watchtower Society NGO "not saying nice things" was it BEFORE or AFTER they had obtained disassociation from the UN/DPI? You see, ANY organization can write whatever they want about the UN, but they can't do so and remain an NGO Associate to the UN/DPI. Your conversation seems to indicate you believe an Associate can write whatever they want about the UN without repurcussion. That is not true.

  Also, you basically lie every time you post here without answering the six questions you promised to answer. As I said, you already answered #4 with a yes. Where are the remaining 5 answers you promised? You aren't a liar and a deceiver, are you? When you agree to do something, you let your yes mean yes, don't you?

  In other words, you are deceiving people about what was really wrong with this situation. And you know it.

  AuldSoul
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  AuldSoul

  thirdwitness: In fact, admittedly an NGO can even criticize the UN and what they are doing without being removed as an NGO.

  The only way the UN/DPI could possibly "remove" the WTS as an NGO is by turning them into a governmental organization. Your questions to Greg were answered correctly, but you didn't ask questions that would generate support for your claims. The WTS was a non-governmental organization (NGO) since 1879 and cannot ever join the UN today BECAUSE they are an NGO, the UN won't allow them to. Only governmental organizations can join the UN.

  IF you had asked whether an NGO Associated to the UN/DPI could write negative things about UN programs and activities, e.g. "the UN is due to be destroyed by God after the UN destroyed all religions except Jehovah's Witnesses," and still remain an Associate with the UN/DPI you would have gotten a much different answer. Verbal support for the UN and its activities is required to remain an Associate with the UN/DPI, the UN/DPI has no control whatsoever over whether an organization is or is not a non-govenmental organization.

  Now, about those six questions...

  AuldSoul
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  zagor

  
  
  I probably should have opened a new thread about this but anyway....
  

  
  
  I've met someone today who almost lost his head in Bosnia because of not wanting to be helped by UN believing they were the beast of the Revelation. (He's also been through prison for neutrality and has been rejected by his family because of that) Luckily poor guy was persuaded by some friends and eventually got to safety in Croatia. However, his conscience was troubled about that ever since. That was back in 1992. He eventually came here and also learned recently that at about the same time WTBS got officially affiliated with UN. Poor fellow is now completely shuttered and has stopped going to meetings and field service all together. Now, thirdwitless, how do you explain to someone like that, your reasoning about not seeing problems in affiliating with UN while at the same time preaching against it? I’ll tell you how this poor fellow explained it in his limited English. – “It is as if someone got married to a girl and behind her back was telling everyone she was a whore”
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  toreador

  Auldsoul,

  Can you post your questions again for the benefit of those who do not want to read 19 pages to find them?
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  AuldSoul

  toreador,

  Can you post your questions again for the benefit of those who do not want to read 19 pages to find them?

  http://www.jehovahs-witness.com/11/117658/2112161/post.ashx#2112161

  Here is the link to the six questions thirdwitness said he would answer. He has only answered Question #4, so far, in another thread. He said that the WTS did join (become part of) the UN/DPI. He has not answered the remaining five questions.

  I doubt he will, even though he specifically agreed to do so.

  thirdwitness: Auldsoul will you please briefly ask the questions that you feel I haven't answered and I will do so.

  I have repetaedly linked him to the post where I initially briefly asked the questions. I have linked him (and everyone else) to that post again, here.

  Respectfully,
  AuldSoul
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  thirdwitness

  NONE of the tripe you just spewed changes the fact that you said the Watchtower Society has "NEVER" said the UN was the "unclean" thing. You were incorrect when you said that.

  Auldsoul, you are wrong. The UN is the digusting thing not the unclean thing. There is a difference. The scripture that is being used against the WTS that says 'do not touch the unclean thing' is not talking about the UN or any other government. It is talking about false religion or false religious practices.