Great news. The WTS did not commit spiritual prostitution with UN.

by thirdwitness 597 Replies latest watchtower scandals

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  thirdwitness

  “What agreement does God’s temple have with idols? “‘Get out from among them, and separate yourselves,’ says Jehovah, ‘and quit touching the unclean thing’; ‘and I will take you in.’ ‘And I shall be a father to you, and you will be sons and daughters to me,’ says Jehovah the Almighty.”—2 Corinthians 6:16-18.

  This is the scripture that the poster quoted and applied to the WTS as a NGO with the DPI. The unclean thing here is not the UN.

  Hillarystep, an opposer of JWs quoted me: The Watchtower Society does not teach that the UN is the unclean thing at all and never has. This is a deliberate lie by apostates to make the Society look like a hypocrite, but they're hoping you will not check the facts yourself.

  And then even admitted: Yes, let us keep this accurate for the sake of all onlookers. They call it 'the disgusting thing that causes desolation'.

  I hope this will put an end to this part of the discussion.
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  thirdwitness

  OOPS and sorry. The name of the UN/DPI officer was not Greg but rather Oleg. So whereever I have used the name Greg just substitute the name, Oleg.
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  zagor

  Lookingglass, you are comparing religion to government. They are different. We are to have nothing to do with religion. We are in subjection to governments. Why is this comparison continually made over and over again when it does not apply? I hope this is the last time that I have to repeat this. Please let it be so.

  
  OK, so if government demands from you to join, on paper at least, ruling party in order for you to survive or in this case use a library, that would be permissible? For example, a government doesn't want you to fight, or support it verbally or in any other way but just to become a associate member on paper that simply states that you are to support their ideals for better living. That would be permissible?
  Interesting thing is that such things are permissible to WTBS Corporation but not to individual members.
  Let me refresh you memory, remember Malawi?.....
  Also would you care answering my earlier question? Thank you.
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  stevenyc

  1524th plenary meeting

  27 May 1968

  Recalling its resolution 1225 (XLII) of 6 June 1967, which requested the Secretary-General to report on the procedures of associating national and international non-governmental organizations with the Office of Public Information, and the possibilities of increasing the number of national non-governmental organizations from all States Members of the United Nations associated with the Office of Public Information, in order to increase their informational activities concerning economic and social affairs,

  Recalling further

  its resolution 1296 (XLIV) of 23 May 1968, and particularly paragraphs 9 and 17 thereof,

  Recognizing

  the contribution of national and international non-governmental organizations to the dissemination of information about the United Nations,

  ...

  6.

  Recommends that the Secretary-General bear in mind the letter and spirit of Council resolution 1296 (XLIV) governing consultative status, in associating international and national non-governmental organizations with the Office of Public Information;

  Concil Resolution 1296(XLIV) 1967

  2. The aims and purposes of the organization shall be in conformity with the spirit, purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations

  36. The consultative status of non-governmental organizations with the Economic and Social Council and the listing of those on the Roster shall be suspended up to three years or withdrawn in the following cases:

  (a) If there exists substantiated evidence of secret governmental financial influence to induce an organization to undertake acts contrary to the purposes and principles of the Charter of the United Nations;

  (b) If the organization clearly abuses its consultative status by systematically engaging in unsubstantiated or politically motivated acts against States Members of the United Nations contrary to and incompatible with the principles of the Charter;

  (c) If, within the preceding three years, an organization had not made any positive or effective contribution to the work of the Council or its commissions or other subsidiary organs.

  steve
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  littlerockguy

  thirdwitness:

  I should have said that the UN is "AN unclean thing" instead of "THE unclean thing"; however anyway you look at it, it is an organization that the WTS has no business touching in any principle. They became ASSOCIATED with an appendage of the UN and that appendage was the UN/DPI. The rank and file witnesses if they did anything remotely similar to that the society did, they would be cut off from among the congregation as many here have seen or have experienced.

  An example would be if a witness were to "marry out of the troof", no elder would marry such a couple much less allow them to get married in a kingdom hall. This happened to my cousin. Her fiance, a Baptist, thought they could get married in a Baptist church. Mind you, my cousin, she done so, would not become a member of the church but would use the preacher's services to satisify the legal requirement of getting married by someone qualified to do so instead of going to the justice of the peace. They quickly told her if she were to do that she would get disfellowshipped.

  This reeks of double standards if you ask me.

  I know you said that religious organizations and governmental organizations are different; we are to avoid Babylon the Great but be in subjection to government and the UN would be categorized as a "government entity" in this case. However the common denominator is that both are considered "unclean" and "lying in the power of the wicked one" so VOLUNTARILY (in contrast to being in subjection to) having anything to do with any of them would be wrong for a witness or the organization(s) that the witnesses use.
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  thirdwitness

  Now that the information has been presented the questions can be answered in the light of this information.

  1) Is the UN/DPI a secular (as opposed to religious) organization?

  Yes
  
  (2) According to JWs, does the UN/DPI have any objectives contrary to the Bible?

  The UN/DPI objective is to disseminate information about the UN. That is the only responsibility of DPI NGOs. It could be information about what the UN has done and is trying to do. The information could also be of a critical nature. The NGO does not support the UN in all its endeavors nor is it required to only give praise to the UN as apostates would lead us to believe. The phrase within it 'own aims and purposes' is applicable to NGOs. The word support means 'furnish corroborating evidence'.

  (3) According to JWs, is the UN/DPI under judgment by Jehovah God?

  All governments are under judgement by God but all are God's servants that we should be in subjection to.
  
  (4) Did the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society of New York, Inc. become part of the the UN/DPI?

  NO The WTS was not incorporated into the UN. Oleg agreed.

  (5) According to JWs, is the UN/DPI approved or diapproved by God?

  All governments and their agencies are God's public servants so in one sense they are approved by God to carry out their God given authority. They are disapproved because they do not submit to God's kingdom.

  (6) According to JWs, are any of the the other members of the UN/DPI disapproved by God?

  I am sure that some are but not for being an NGO with the UN/DPI. I am not sure that all NGOs with the UN/DPI are disapproved by God.

  Your questions are too broad and general. If you want to ask more specific questions then More details can be provided on the above answers if necessary. I believe I have answered all the above questions already in a more specific way by the material I have presented.
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  thirdwitness

  Steve, in answer to your last post about the resolution you quote.

  In resolution, 1297, the ECOSOC gave the Department of Public Information, the DPI, it’s power to associate it's own NGOs. The resolution says, in part:

  “[ECOSOC] [r]ecommends that the Secretary-General bear in mind the letter and spirit of Council resolution 1296 (XLIV) governing consultative status, in associating international and national non-governmental organizations with the Office of Public Information [DPI];”

  This is often quoted as proof that, although the Watchtower Society was not under the previous resolution (1296) which says the NGO must “support the work of the UN”, this next resolution did apply to the Watchtower Society — and this resolution says it must “bear in mind the letter and spirit of Council resolution 1296”.

  Yet, is that really what it says? No. The resolution is giving an instruction to the “Secretary-General” — not to the NGOs themselves. It does not say that “the NGO must bear in mind the letter and spirit of Council resolution 1296”. No — it is an instruction to the Secretary-General, and to no-one else.

  This fact is reflected in the original forms which the Watchtower Society completed in 1991 to become a DPI NGO. If you carefully examine the forms, you will notice that it nowhere says that the Watchtower Society should “bear in mind the letter and spirit of Council resolution 1296”. Why? Because as said, the instruction was to “the Secretary-General” — just as it says in the resolution — and not to the NGOs at all. —See the original 1991 application forms

  If, in fact, it had been a requirement, you would imagine that it would have been on the forms somewhere. Perhaps the forms would have said something like, “You agree to bear in mind ECOSOC resolution 1296” or perhaps even say, “We hereby agree to support the UN and it's charter”, followed by a dotted-line for a signature, legally confirming that the NGO agreed to those terms. Yet, that is not what we find anywhere. Nowhere does it say anything about supporting “the work of the UN” on any of the forms, nor does it mention the ECOSOC resolution. In fact, there doesn't seem to be a single part of those forms which says anything which may compromise our Christian beliefs.

  So we can see that the Watchtower Society never agreed to be subject to Resolution 1296 of the Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC) where it says NGOs must support the UN. That resolution only applied to ECOSOC NGOs — of which the Watchtower Society has never been. The next resolution was an instruction to the Secretary-General, and to no-one else, and neither was it reflected in the forms that the Watchtower Society completed.
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  stevenyc

  As I have already mentioned, but will repeat, there are 7 principle organs which make up the United Nations. Two of which are the Secretariat and the Economic and Social Council (ECOSOC). The UN/DPI is part of the Secretariat. The resolutions I posted were recommendations and provisions presented by ECOSOC. In those recommendations, which were agreed to, the last two sections are NOT regarding ECOSOC but rather the Secretariat. The resolution states for the Secretariat to ASSOCIATE an NGO, the NGO must follow the guide and principles of this ECOSOC resolution. This required is and always has been displayed in the NGO association guidelines as have been shown in this thread.

  Thirdwitnoid is confusing a very simple thing.

  steve
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  stevenyc

  thirdwitnoid, do you understand what, in law, "the letter and spirit of" actually means?

  steve
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  thirdwitness

  Done4good: Where does the concept of "subjection" come into play with the WT's CHOICE to become an NGO?

  This question could be asked about anything to do with government.

  Where does the concept of "subjection" come into play with the CHOICE to use the government to mail a letter?

  Where does the concept of "subjection" come into play with the CHOICE to use the government to defend your rights in court?

  Where does the concept of "subjection" come into play with the CHOICE to use the government to educate your children? You could send them to a non governmental private school.

  Where does the concept of "subjection" come into play with the CHOICE to become a lawyer in association with governmental judicial system?

  Where does the concept of "subjection" come into play with the CHOICE to become a teacher associated with a government sponsored school?

  Where does the concept of "subjection" come into play with the CHOICE to use the government to obtain unemployment compensation, food stamps, workers compensation for injury?