The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

by thirdwitness 1380 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jayhawk1
    jayhawk1

    From Freeminds.org

    Naturally, many in the Bethel family were concerned and wept at the breakfast table when they heard what had happened with the Spanish brothers. Meantime, the Service Department was busy rounding up any evidence they could in order to disfellowship Raymond Franz, as they felt he and Edward Dunlap were conspiring against the organization. Lee Waters of the Service Department even made the statement that "They (the `apostates') had been building a platform (upon which to attack) for many years." While Lyman Swingle stood up for Ray Franz and prevented him from being disfellowshipped at that time (Lyman knew all the facts about 1914), Franz was spied upon and later disfellowshipped for eating a meal with his boss, a former Witness (see Time Magazine of Feb. 22, 1982, p. 66). Edward Dunlap was disfellowshipped after members of the Governing Body pleaded with him to ignore the facts and maintain their present understanding for the sake of unity. Dozens more left the Bethel family or were disfellowshipped in the months to come, as they apparently "knew too much." While members of the Bethel family heard regular denouncements of the "apostates," few knew of the events that had occurred.

    PMJ, I highly incourage you to try reading sometime, it will help with your grammar and spelling.

    I recommend this as a good place to start your education. http://www.freeminds.org/history/critical.htm

  • Fisherman
    Fisherman

    In conclusion, Ann and AD the verses that you cited and the verses that you quoted and your arguments, and your logic do not prove that the kingdom began in the 1st century as you interpret the Bible. In consideration of 3w arguments defending the wts on this topic don't prove that the kingdom began in 1914 either.

    I do agree with ANN when she says that a voice from heaven or something to that effect will tip the scales.

    I enjoyed reading many publications advertised on this site on this topic. Very informative reading that have enriched my perspective on topics that I previously only had a set view on.

    Thanks for kindly reading my posts on this topic,

    Fisherman

  • PMJ2
    PMJ2

    yep all you have shown me is that he was disfellowshiped.thats what i said happened i agree he turned wicked and became apostate.but he was disfellowshipped.thats what i was saying

  • Kenneson
    Kenneson






    If anyone suggests that the Watchtower only registered with DPI and was not associated with it, don't buy it. It was their representatives who approached DPI and not the other way around. And they very well knew what they were getting into. They were associates and when the news story broke in the Guardian, they shortly thereafter disassociated themselves. It was no mere registration.

    Check out the following 1992 press release:

    "The Department of Public Information (DPI) accepted, on 28 January, 37 non-governmental organiztions (NGOs) seeking ASSOCIATION with it..."

    "The NGOs officially recognized by DPI COOPERATE with the United Nations to help BUILD PUBLIC UNDERSTANDING AND SUPPORT for United Nations PROGRAMMES AND GOALS..."

    "To BE GRANTED ASSOCIATION WITH DPI, NGOs must have national or international standing, SUPPORT THE CHARTER OF THE UNITED NATIONS, have a broadly based membership and possess the resources necessary for effective OUTREACH."

    http://www.randytv.com/secret/feb92dpia.jpg

    http://www.randytv.com/secret/feb92dpib.jpg

    The Watchtower applied to associate with DPI in 1991 and was accepted in 1992. It is apparent that a two-day annual orientation had to be attended by Lloyd Barry and Ciro Aulcinio, the Watchtower representatives through the years of association. And we are to suppose that none of this was brought to their attention in orientation, when at least twice it was mentioned in the press? Moreover, DPI sent monthly bulletins to keep them abreast. And yet we are asked to believe that no one at the Watchtower knew.

    According to the 1997 DPI brochure, one of the criteria for assocation with DPI is SHARING THE IDEALS of the U.N. Charter. But when they first applied for association, according to those press releases they "must...support the CHARTER of the U.N." So at least for 5 years they should have known that the Charter delineates the goals, principles, ideals, purposes and work of the U.N. They just didn't find out about it in 2001 as they claim.

    But what is more amazing is the claim that EVEN if they had known all this, the Watchtower did nothing wrong because the Watchtower agrees with the goals of the U.N.: peace, unity and brotherhood. Well, there's nothing wrong with peace, unity and brotherhood, but for about 60 years the Watchtower has told us that peace, unity, and brotherhood will not come through the efforts of the U.N. but God's kingdom. So, was it necessary for Watchtower Society to partnership with DPI and write favorable articles on the U.N. in Awake magazine just because it believes in peace, unity and brotherhood? Am I the only one who sees incongruity here?

    In the U.N. Charter, Chapter 1, Article 1: The Purposes of the United Nations are: 1. TO MAINTAIN international PEACE and security, and to that END: to take effective COLLECTIVE MEASURES for the prevention and removal of threats to the peace, and the SUPPRESSION of acts of aggression or other breaches of peace, and to bring about by peaceful means..." The U.N. can as a last resort ask member nations to use its soldiers in areas where it is felt warranted. So, while the Watchtower says that it can support the ideals of the U.N., it is obvious that it cannot support the means to achieve it. Yet, that's all in the Charter too. Somebody must have overlooked that part.

    http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/un/unchart.htm

    Oh, and the part about the U.N. being a superior authority of Rom. 13. That's a bunch of b.s. as well. The U.N. itself states that "The U.N. does not have the capacity to impose peace by force. It is NOT a WORLD GOVERNMENT. It has no standing army, no military assets. It is not an international police force. The effectiveness of the U.N. DEPENDS on the POLITICAL WILL of its MEMBER STATES, which DECIDE If, WHEN and HOW the U.N. TAKES ACTION to end conflicts."

    The U.N. is not a government of any kind. Doesn't even act like a government. It doesn't have powers to make and enforce laws, something all the member-nations (governments) of the U.N. do within their borders. Those same member-nations (governments) have never been willing to give the U.N. such authority. It would impinge on the sovereignty of member nations and they are not willing to surrender it, except in limited ways.

    The U.N. is not a sovereign state or nation in New York (like Vatican City is in Rome). It is not a king or ruler. No one is a citizen of the U.N. It is merely an organization that is a forum for discussion and cooperation between sovereign governments. It coordinates activities between nations on a global scale. It doesn't act of its own accord and independently of its member nations. It has no soldiers nor powers of its own, only those granted to it by its members.

  • greendawn
    greendawn

    It always amazes me that the forum never gets tired of the 607 versus the 587 date, also by the trinity, and the evolution versus creation debates.

  • stillajwexelder
    stillajwexelder

    wicked and became apostate - so you are saying because Ray Franz disagreed with a man made organization that makes him a wicked person?

  • stevenyc
    stevenyc

    thirdwitness: No one has said that the WTS did not comply with the rules. The rules changed. And Paul Hoeffel tells the rules in his letter after the change was made

    The rules concerning the requirement for ALL NGO's at ALL levels when joining or to later 'upgrade' to consultancy status DID NOT CHANGE.

    Do YOU want me to post the requirements for 1990 through 2006 showing the requirements for EVERY ENTRY to the DPI/NGO ? You know what will happen if I do. So Thirdwitness, I ask you, do YOU want me to post the requirements, from the UN, including ALL the years the Watchtower society was a DPI / NGO?

    steve

  • jayhawk1
    jayhawk1

    Ozziepost said to PMJ2,

    ok thank you i only changed it because it wouldnt let me post
    and your multiple registrations will do nothing to improve that! I'm thinking of re-naming this "The Troll Thread".

    I couldn't agree more.

  • jayhawk1
    jayhawk1

    Steve said,

    Do YOU want me to post the requirements for 1990 through 2006 showing the requirements for EVERY ENTRY to the DPI/NGO ? You know what will happen if I do. So Thirdwitness, I ask you, do YOU want me to post the requirements, from the UN, including ALL the years the Watchtower society was a DPI / NGO?

    Can I answer your questions?

    Oh please do! Don't even wait for a thirdwitness reply, he won't answer you. Please go ahead and post them.

  • Kenneson
    Kenneson

    Steve,

    By all means do it.

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