The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible (page 116)

stevenyc

thirdwitness: The preaching work is not over yet. How many more will be contacted who can say? What events will take place during the GT that will make everyone take notice of JWs so that virtually everyone knows of JWs, who can say? Just like in the days of Noah Jehovah did not unjustly destroy anyone I have the same confidence at Armageddon. I know that Jehovah can take note of any righteous ones, just as he did Noah, and direct them to those that will tell them about Jehovah. I do not have to be concerned with it.

Interesting response. That billions of people are going to be executed is not your problem. How Christian!

The watchtower I quoted stated that, with regard to the days of Noah: Those to whom Noah preached were so engrossed in personal affairs and pleasures that "they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away". (watchtower 2003 dec 15, p19-24), leaves no exception outside of Noah's immediate family.. This would also have included the mental disabled incapable of making such a decision. Do you think that just?

steve

AuldSoul

Fisherman,

For me, the initial opinion I clearly set down on paper was quickly thrashed by the Scriptures I considered. It was beaten bloody and left for dead. In short, I can explain what my new opinion is in full and demonstrate the Scriptures on which it is based.

First, some primary facts. These are overriding truths of language parts that can't change meaning during the consideration, lest the consideration of the elements devolve into senseless twisting of or addition to the meaning. If you disagree with any of these, please state clearly why you disagree and what you believe the meaning should be.

Kingdom (gr. basileia, basileian; Strong's G932) is a political or territorial realm governed or ruled over by a king. The existence of a kingdom requires (1) a king and (2) a dominion. The dominion can be people, it need not be land.

Priest (gr. hiereus) refers to one who offers sacrifices or performs sacred rites in worship.

King (gr. basileus) refers to one possessing royal authority, such as a monarch or king.

Ambassador (gr. presbeuo) resident representative of and/or spokesperson for a foreign sovereign or government, residing in a foerign land while remaining a citizen of the sovereign or government they represent.

Next, examine the Scriptures in light of these definitions.

The NWT and all other modern translations that I have read properly translate Revelation 1:6:

Revelation 1:4-6 4 John to the seven congregations that are in the [district of] Asia: May YOU have undeserved kindness and peace from “The One who is and who was and who is coming,” and from the seven spirits that are before his throne, 5 and from Jesus Christ, “the Faithful Witness,” “The firstborn from the dead,” and “The Ruler of the kings of the earth.” To him that loves us and that loosed us from our sins by means of his own blood— 6 and he made us to be a kingdom, priests to his God and Father—yes, to him be the glory and the might forever. Amen.

According to the definitions at the outset, "a kingdom" requires a king and a dominion. It does not require multiple kings. However, a dominion may be made up of priests who also are ambassadors of their sovereign.

1 Peter 2:4-10 4 Coming to him as to a living stone, rejected, it is true, by men, but chosen, precious, with God, 5 YOU yourselves also as living stones are being built up a spiritual house for the purpose of a holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ. 6 For it is contained in Scripture: “Look! I am laying in Zion a stone, chosen, a foundation cornerstone, precious; and no one exercising faith in it will by any means come to disappointment.”
7 It is to YOU, therefore, that he is precious, because YOU are believers; but to those not believing, “the identical stone that the builders rejected has become [the] head of [the] corner,” 8 and “a stone of stumbling and a rock-mass of offense.” These are stumbling because they are disobedient to the word. To this very end they were also appointed. 9 But YOU are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, a people for special possession, that YOU should declare abroad the excellencies” of the one that called YOU out of darkness into his wonderful light. 10 For YOU were once not a people, but are now God’s people; YOU were those who had not been shown mercy, but are now those who have been shown mercy.

2 Corinthians 5:20-21 20 We are therefore ambassadors substituting for Christ, as though God were making entreaty through us. As substitutes for Christ we beg: “Become reconciled to God.” 21 The one who did not know sin he made to be sin for us, that we might become God’s righteousness by means of him.

I realized that the Watchtower Society applies the Scripture in 2 Corinthians exactly the same way it seems it should be applied. Well, exactly the same except for the timing:

Watchtower March 1, 2004, p. 17, par. 17
17 Harvesttime is a joyful time. (Psalm 126:6) It is fitting, then, that when in 1919, Jesus entrusted his faithful anointed brothers with increased responsibility, he said: “You were faithful over a few things. I will appoint you over many things. Enter into the joy of your master.” (Matthew 25:21, 23) Moreover, the joy of the Master as newly enthroned King of God’s Kingdom surpasses our imagination. (Psalm 45:1, 2, 6, 7) The faithful slave class share that joy by representing the King and increasing his interests on earth. (2 Corinthians 5:20) Their delight is seen in the prophetic words of Isaiah 61:10: “Without fail I shall exult in Jehovah. My soul will be joyful in my God. For he has clothed me with the garments of salvation.”

They apply the term "ambassador" that was used in a letter written to First Century Christians as meaning a representative of the King. While there would surely be ambassadors of the King today, as well, it can't really be ignored that Paul believed the First Century Christians were already ambassadors for their King.

Also, Peter agreed on this point. He depicts the First Century Christians as a royal priesthood (as John did in Revelation 1:6), and "a holy nation...[declaring] abroad" a message. That is what ambassadors do for their sovereign. He says they were once not a people, but they are now "God's people." This agrees with what John said regarding their having been made "a kingdom." The fact that Peter says of the First Century Christians, "You are..." shows that they were not waiting to fulfill those roles, they currently were fulfilling those roles.

Colossians 1:13-14 13 He delivered us from the authority of the darkness and transferred us into the kingdom of the Son of his love, 14 by means of whom we have our release by ransom, the forgiveness of our sins.

Did this mean the darkness no longer exercised authority? No. But according to this Scripture it no longer exercised authority over the First Century Christians, because they were transferred into a different authority, the kingdom of Christ. They became subjects of that kingdom. Checking our definitions again, we find that kingdom requires a king. The subjects can be the dominion, as shown by Peter above. Consider Revelation 1:6 above and also Revelation 1:9:

Revelation 1:9
9 I John, YOUR brother and a sharer with YOU in the tribulation and kingdom and endurance in company with Jesus, came to be in the isle that is called Pat'mos for speaking about God and bearing witness to Jesus.

A sharer in the (1) tribulation and (2) kingdom and (3) endurance...this raises a few questions.

Was the tribulation present in the First Century Asian congregations? Yes, it was not prophetic of some period of time 1,900 years into the future.

Was the endurance in which John shared with them presented as contemporary to his writing? Yes, it was not prophetic of some period 1,900 years in the future.

Why should the middle condition in which John says he shared with them be surrounded by two phrases that were clearly contemporary to the writing, while this single condition should be displaced to 1,900 years in the future?

The context of Revelation 1:1-9 dates the kingdom as existing in the First Century, as far as First Century Christians were concerned. The fact that there is agreement between Paul, Peter, and John on this point adds considerable weight to the conclusion, in my opinion. But as I said earlier, you are welcome to believe whatever you want to believe, or even suspend the formation of belief as it seems you have chosen to do.

Respectfully,
AuldSoul

Sunspot

AlanF has done a smart thing in trying to let this drop since he has shown that he cannot understand or properly explain scriptures or WT publications and is hoping no one will notice and it will just go away.

Let this DROP????

Good grief! This (and he) have gone on now for.....what is it now....58 pages? Oh yeah.....that Alan....what a quitter! I guess he knows when he's licked.

Speaking of going ON for 58 pages 3rdWit......I'll just venture to say that this being so close to the end of the month, that all the posting to this thread will certainly enhance your bible-based (tm) time report to your leaders! Its a good thing that you don't have to list where you spent so much time "preaching" about the kingdom.

Annie.....who used to get LOTS of "hours in" on discussion boards....

TopHat

If you had lived in the days of Noah what would you have needed to do to survive?
At some point you would have had to join up with Noah. Noah and his family were Jehovah's servants on the earth at that time. Unless you joined in with God's people and entered the ark you would not have been saved.

TW, I don't HAVE to JOIN any person to be in God's good grace. Noah was in God's good grace and each person interring the ARK was in God's good grace. If I had lived in Noah's time GOD would have saved me if I was in his good grace.

My point is we all have access to God's ARK today...."THE SCRIPTURES" along with the Holy Sprit.

PMJ3

ozzie was PMJ2 deleted? because it wouldn't let me login.i have set up this new account because PMJ2 wasn't working correctly.if you haven't all ready done so could you delete PMJ2.so nobody thinks i use more than one account

OUTLAW

AlanF,I think you misunderstand 3RD Troll.."Nothing left to respond to."..I think its:"Nothing left to respond with.".....You burned his brain out!!..He`s lost his Tard..He`s gotta get back to the Kingdom Hall to get Retarded!!..That boy is a mess and it`s your fault!..LOL!!...OUTLAW

steve

The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible

stevenyc

AuldSoul

Sunspot

TopHat

PMJ3

OUTLAW

PMJ3

AuldSoul

jayhawk1

stevenyc

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