Auldsoul, your previous post about Christ's authority is an example in spoon feeding. I actually do not need to reply because you failed to overcome my arguments at all. Or I have already answered your arguments in detail. But of course you will claim that I ignored your points so I must take you by the hand and lead you along on each point. I am sure that any reasonable unbiased person realizes that you simply glossed over my arguments with a long post without substance. But let me show you once again. Auldsouls words in italics.
When Jesus said 'all authority' did he mean that he had all authority over everything and everyone?
All authority, yes. This does not require GREATER authority over everything. But at least equal to every authority. If someone is given authority equal to the highest available authority they have all authority, no one has greater authority. He became co-ruler, seated on the throne with his Father at his Father's right hand, with authority equal to that of the one who granted it to him. I caution, authority possessed does not equal authority exercised no matter how often you try to assert otherwise.
You seem to believe in the Trinity. Or that Jesus is God. Am I right? You ignore what Death of the Pixies wrote of course. And you ignore 1 Cor 15 where it says Jesus being given all authority is with the exception of God. So, no all authority as stated by Jesus in Matt 28:18 did not mean all absolute authority in subjection to no one.
You also split hairs about being given all authority and exercising that authority. More on that further down.
I noticed you have trotted out your "61 CE" Hebrews crap, repeatedly. However, the date for the writing of Hebrews is hardly solidly confirmed.
Whatever date you chose to give the writings of Hebrews it was some years after 33CE so this point is mute.
And Ephesians states directly that God had placed "all things" under the feet of Jesus by the time of its writing, which JWs put as prior to Hebrews. Since JWs teach that the same author wrote both books, why does the author directly contradict his own earlier statement?
Ephesians points out exactly what is meant if you would read it. Eph 1:Christ when he raised him up from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above every government and authority and power and lordship and every name named, not only in this system of things, but also in that to come. 22 He also subjected all things under his feet, and made him head over all things to the congregation,
Do you see that Jesus was seated in heavenly places so of course he has been exalted far above all other rulers. And of course all things are under his feet for he is in heaven. But it is pointed out that he is head over all things to the congregation. And while it says that all things are under his feet because of his heavenly position this is not specific to the prophecy of Psalm 110. But in Heb 10:13 Paul is specifically talking about that prophecy. What you fail to understand is that the prophecy of Jesus as the promised everlasting ruler in the Davidic kingship had not yet come to its finish. That Davidic kingship he would not receive until the end of the Gentile times when the ruler that God would choose would be made king.
You also keep bringing up that Revelation says "Now have come to pass...the authority of his Christ." If he did not have all authority when he said he had all authority, he lied. "Come to pass" can easily mean an exercise of authority, power, and rulership. In the case of "authority" due to Matthew 28:18 it could not possibly mean a granting of authority unless Jesus lied. So, understanding Jesus' authority is actually the key to understanding whether the verse describes the acquiring of power, rulership, and authority or whether it describes the exercise of the same.
Ah, here we have the splitting of hairs. So basically you agree with JWs. Jesus was yet to exercise his kingly authority as ruler of God's kingdom. It would be at a later date after his acsension to heaven at the appointed time. And it was only after Satan was thrown out of heaven that then his authority and power and rulership came to pass. Thanks. I am glad to know that you agree with JWs on this point after all.
How is it that Jesus went to heaven and came before Jehovah as recorded at Daniel 7:13,14 in 33CE when the little horn that would become great had not yet arrived on the world scene as shown would be the case at this time in Daniel 7?
I am guessing you agree with the JW interpretation of the little horn? I do not hold your prejudices about the interpretive prowess of the leaders (gods) of your church. They are wrong far more often than they are right. In fact, when it comes to interpreting the meaning of the verses in Daniel they have rewritten many times over more words explaining and changing the explanations of Daniel than are contained in the entire Bible. The little horn doesn't mean what they think it means, they interpreted it just as badly as they interpret almost everything else. Next?
Here I notice that you are quick to say JWs are wrong but you offer no explanation as to why or what the real meaning of the small horn is. It is very easy to make unsubstantiated statements with nothing to back them up. Did you know that the moon is made of cheese? I know scientists say that is wrong but they have been wrong about things before.
How is it that Paul said the Jesus was still waiting for Jehovah to put his enemies under his feet in Heb 10:13 if Jesus had already received 'all authority'?
That's a really good question. Especially considering Paul directly contradicted what he wrote to the Ephesians (if he even wrote Hebrews). Why don't you ask Paul?
I explained that above.
Did this happen in 33CE? Did he travel to a distant land (heaven) privately after his ressurection and 'eventually' secure kingly power in a couple of days, then returned to earth and appeared to the disciples and then returned to heaven before onlookers without rewarding his slaves and punishing his enemies?
Except why do you continually imply that the parable you are referring to from Luke 19 and Matthew 25 are prophecies?
Now you are really grasping. Not a prophecy huh? Based on this there must not be any prophecies by Jesus. They are all just stories. I don't think that one unbiased person reading this will believe what you just said. Reasonableness is not your best quality, is it?
Also, why do you stipulate that kingly power had to be secured "in a couple of days"?
That is your stipulation. You say that Jesus went to heaven privately received all authority came back down and told the disciples that he had been given all authority and then went back to heaven publicly. He was only on earth 40 days after his ressurection. So he only had a few days to secure kingly power.
Also, why do you keep insinuating that obtaining authority EQUALS obtaining kingly power?
Oh so now you are opening the way up again to believe what JWs teach. That he received authority all right, but he did not receive his kingly power until 1914. Thanks for again showing us that the Bible allows for that teaching after all. Why are we continuing to discuss this since you admit JWs are right about it?
Also, why has Jesus not literally slaughtered nearly 100 years after rewarding his select upon his return?
I would ask you the same thing? Why didn't Jesus literally slaughter the enemies after gaining all authority including kingly authority in 33CE?
So, in short, your entire question here is based on a LONG string of conjecture that doubles back on itself forming a perfect circle, filled with what appears to be cooked spaghetti—all wet, limp and lifeless.
I think you are talking about yourself here.
Revelation 11:15 is plainly the announcement of an event that had already occurred. If I write, "I did become a writer" would you know when I became a writer? You would only know that it was sometime prior to my statement and anything more specific that you concluded from my words would be pure conjecture.
Pure conjecture huh? In view of the Rev 12 future prophecy this is the silliest of arguments. And Why does verse 16 say, “We thank you, Jehovah God, the Almighty, the One who is and who was, because you have taken your great power and begun ruling as king. Jehovah has begun ruling as king when the kingdom of the world became the kingdom of the Lord and his Christ. Sounds like he takes on a special rulership toward the earth to me.
The timing of the occurrence is not stipulated in the text, and your assertion that it occurred at the sounding of the trump is not founded in Scripture. However, other events are supported as accompanying the sounding of this trumpet.
Really, then why does the scripture directly and totally contradict what you just said when it says: 15 And the seventh angel blew his trumpet. And loud voices occurred in heaven, saying: “The kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ, and he will rule as king forever and ever.”
Then you say: Now, this verse in 1 Corinthians has me a bit puzzled, thirdwitness. Obviously no one would describe a single trumpet as "the last trumpet". This designation clearly necessitates a series of trumpets with a "last" in the series. If Paul had not read Revelation when he wrote this, where did he get the idea there would be a series of trumpet blasts, with a final one that would signal the events described here? But wouldn't that mean that he wrote 1 Corinthians AFTER considering John's vision? What do YOU say?
I say it wouldn't matter. And I say there is this thing called holy spirit that can direct people to write exactly what Jehovah wants them to write. But at any rate, you prove that the 7th trumpet is the last trumpet and that is when the kingdom of the world becomes the kingdom of the Lord and of his Christ.
Then you totally contradict yourself by saying: I say, this trumpet has not been blown. I say, this trumpet will be nearly concurrent with the sign of the Son of man which hasn't yet occurred.
So first you say the kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of the Lord and of his Christ is in the past (which by the way is the proclamation made after the sounding of the 7th and last trumpet) but then you turn around and say: I say, this trumpet has not been blown.
So which is it? Is the last trumpet when the proclamation is made that the kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of the Lord and his Christ in the past or in the future?
