by thirdwitness 1380 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Did the 1996 Watchtower on parousia fairly represent Josephus' statements where he uses parousia?
Alan, can I guess and say "Yes" to your question since Thirdwitness can't answer anything strait on. We know if Thirdwitness answers "No" he would be going against the Watchtower Corp.'s ruling on parousia.
Thirdwitness said on Page 24 Post 275 the following…
How do I know that every prophecy of Daniel points to the king of God's kingdom. Because the Bible says so.Dan 2:44, "And in the days of those kings the God of heaven will set up a kingdom that will never be brought to ruin. And the kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite;"
Dan 7:27 "And the kingdom and the rulership and the grandeur of the kingdoms under all the heavens were given to the people who are the holy ones of the Supreme One. Their kingdom is an indefinitely lasting kingdom, and all the rulerships will serve and obey even them."
Dan 8:25: "And against the Prince of princes he will stand up, but it will be without hand that he will be broken."
Dan 12:1 "And during that time Mi´cha·el will stand up, the great prince who is standing in behalf of the sons of your people."
Even Daniel 5 concerning the conquest of Babylon points to the Greater Cyrus, the King Christ Jesus, who Jehovah calls 'his anointed one' in Isaiah 45:1.
How about Daniel 4. Does it also conclude with God's Kingdom? Dan 4:17 "By the decree of watchers the thing is, and [by] the saying of holy ones the request is, to the intent that people living may know that the Most High is Ruler in the kingdom of mankind and that to the one whom he wants to, he gives it and he sets up over it even the lowliest one of mankind."
I still don’t see how your quoting Daniel which is in the middle of the prophecy for Nebuchadnezzar has anything to do with Jesus. Daniel basically says that God has given Nebuchadnezzar a kingdom. Not once does this prophecy say it has a greater unrealized fulfillment. I have not had time to review all the other Daniel quotes, but I will grant you Daniel 2:44 since it follows the destruction of the image.
I'll get the format right yet!
jayhawk1,
The "fire" etc...such as it was...is explained as follows:
*** re chap. 25 p. 165 par. 16 Reviving the Two Witnesses *** In 1917 the Bible Students published The Finished Mystery, a powerful commentary on Revelation and Ezekiel. This was followed by the distribution of 10,000,000 copies of the four-page tract The Bible Students Monthly with the feature article entitled “The Fall of Babylon—Why Christendom Must Now Suffer—the Final Outcome.” In the United States, the irate clergy used the war hysteria as an excuse to get the book banned. In other countries the book was censored. Nevertheless, God’s servants kept fighting back with fiery issues of the four-page tract entitled Kingdom News. As the Lord’s day proceeded, other publications would make clear Christendom’s spiritually defunct condition.—Compare Jeremiah 5:14.
In 1917 the Bible Students published The Finished Mystery, a powerful commentary on Revelation and Ezekiel that is no longer used by Jehovah's Witnesses because the errors in the book and the false claims about what the future held FAR outweigh the scant few points that are still doctrine in the modern organization. The same is true of the four-page tracts. Chock full of lies, false prophecies, and hysterical conspiracy theorizing—none of which came to pass as predicted.
There is extremely good reason the WTS doesn't allow just anyone to have access to their libraries. No JW could see the full extent of failed prophecy and remain a JW without first being THOROUGHLY conditioned to resist truth.
Respectfully,
AuldSoul
I also feel the same is probably true of the Photodrama. In the middle 1990's they was talking that thing up like it was something amazing. I kept figuring at the time we would be able to see it remastered on video. Never happened! Why? Probably because it is full of Pyramidology and other beliefs CT Russell taught.
How true it is if the Jehovah's Witnesses could be given the honest truth about their former beliefs from the Watchtower itself, it would cause many to lose faith.
Nevertheless, God’s servants kept fighting back with fiery issues of the four-page tract entitled Kingdom News.
And now a mere 92 years later, Jehovah has given more food at the proper time with Kingdom News #37, "The End Of False Religion Is Near!"
Anyone care to answer why Revelation 1:7 says "every eye will see him" referring to Jesus' coming.
If he came invisably in 1914, how is it every eye saw him?
The final nail in the coffin of AlanF's and other opposition to JWs interpretation of parousia. Luke 17 offers a parallel of Matthew 24. An examination of it will reveal the true meaning of parousia. Luke 17: 26 Moreover, just as it occurred in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of man: 27 they were eating, they were drinking, men were marrying, women were being given in marriage, until that day when Noah entered into the ark, and the flood arrived and destroyed them all. Note that 'the days of Noah' = 'the days of the Son of man'. The days of Noah was a time when people were carrying on the everyday affairs of life and took no note of their impending destruction. They took no note of what Noah was saying and doing. How long were the days of Noah when men were taking no note until the flood came? According to Genesis 6:3 Jehovah says of wicked mankind in the days of Noah: "... his days shall amount to a hundred and twenty years.” So the days of Noah before the flood, specified by Jehovah, when men were taking no note of Jehovah was at the very least 120 years. Quite an extended period of time. Enter Matthew 24: 37 : For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38 For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; 39 and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be. Lets compare this scripture to Luke 17:26,27. Luke: Moreover, just as it occurred in the days of Noah, Matt: For just as the days of Noah were Luke:so it will be also in the days of the Son of man: Matt:so the presence of the Son of man will be. Luke: 27 they were eating, they were drinking, men were marrying, women were being given in marriage, Matt: For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, Luke: until that day when Noah entered into the ark, and the flood arrived and destroyed them all. Matt: 39 and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, The sentences are virtually the same, almost identical with one notable exception. Luke says 'the days of the Son of man' but Matthew says 'presence of the Son of man'. What can we surmise from this? The 'days of the Son of man' = the 'presence of the Son of man'. And both equal the days of Noah when people were living their everyday life taking no note of what Jehovah's servants were doing and saying. Then the flood came and swept them all away. A time period that lasted over 100 years. The days or presence of the Son of man is not just paralleled by the period when the flood actually swept them all away. The days or parousia of Jesus is paralleled by the days of Noah before the flood also when they were taking no note of what was to come upon them. The days that someone is present involves not only their arrival but the period of days that they remain after their arrival. Likewise today, for the most part people are living their everyday lives not taking any note of the days or presence of the Son of man and that Jesus is gathering his people into one ark or organization for survival of the impending destruction to be brought upon this wicked system. So in conclusion, this proves decisively that the presence or parousia or days of the Son of man is a specific extended time period that begins before the actual destruction of the wicked system when people are taking no note of God and his reigning King and what he is doing and taking no note of their impending destruction just like the days of Noah which lasted over 100 years. In view of this definitive and undeniable scriptural evidence, parousia is no brief coming at the destruction of the wicked as many would have you believe. Not only that but parousia in Matthew 24 can accurately be translated by its root meaning presence and presence accurately depicts the entire meaning of parousia because the days or parousia of the Son of man covers many many years just as the days of Noah covered many many years
If he came invisably in 1914, how is it every eye saw him?
That would be with a spiritiual eye trained by watchtower biblical teaching.
Well gee, 120 yrs of presence, then blammo! Why didn't the wt know about this 100 yrs ago? They always talked about the 70 or 80 yr generational lifespan. They had such silly geese for gb back then. Ho well. Glad it's finally straitened out.
S *furiously adds 120 and 1914 to find out how many yrs of apostasizing he can safely do, and then still jump back into the ark at the last day* Eureka! 2034!!
You miss the whole point. NO one is saying the days or presence of the Son of man is 120 years long. It could be. Who knows? But the fact is that it is many many years long and over 100 years is not too long for Christ's presence to last according to the scriptures.
