Hmmm, it seems Saki has a bad temper. Such lack of love is not becoming for a follower of Jesus, now is it? Now, turn the other cheek. (WHACK) Feel better? LOL!
The Gentiles Times Reconsidered--Again but this Time By Using the Bible
by thirdwitness 1380 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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jayhawk1
Frank, I hope you reconsider your position on posting in this thread. Your timely cartoons have been both helpful and funny. Hopefully you will keep them coming in another thread.
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plmkrzy
Well, it proves that the WTS is merely an interpreter of Biblical prophecies and as such has no ethical right to insist on shunning those whose interpretations differ.
! Amen to that HS -
plmkrzy
I think that is the numero uno biggest complaint I have with the wts. They leave no room for anyone to exercise our own right to think. They've made thinking a sin!!!!
my posts only post 1/2
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DannyHaszard
Well, it proves that the WTS is merely an interpreter of Biblical prophecies and as such has no ethical right to insist on shunning those whose interpretations differ
Moreover,no matter how they interpret the Bible or a grocery list watchtower followers will still all grow old and die.
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thirdwitness
Hilarystep has been trying to hi jack this thread ever since it began and talk about another subject. Why? Simple. Hilarystep cannot argue with clear Bible scriptures. Hilary step knows that the Bible clearly shows the 7 times ended in 1914, the presence or days of the Son of man then began, no longer was Jerusalem under the feet of the nations but it was reversed and then the nations and enemies of Christ were put as a footstool under his feet. Christ has gathered up his willing military force of Kingdom preachers and went subduing in the midst of his enemies. Now Hilarystep says: This thread seems to have turned into an endless rotation of Biblical interpretation, with as many views on the subject as there are people participating. Yes there are many interpretations but only one is correct and that is the one that accepts the Bible for what it says. Of course if the Bible is ignored there will be an endless number of interpretations. Hilarystep says: What does this prove? Well, it proves that the WTS is merely an interpreter of Biblical prophecies and as such has no ethical right to insist on shunning those whose interpretations differ. No, what it proves is that apostates cannot argue with clear Bible scriptures. They time and again are thwarted at their puny attempts at disproving JWs. So in desparation they continue to bring up every silly and ridiculous notion they can think of to try to disprove JWs. Like these statements made by opposers of JWs: I believe Jesus' public ascension was not his only ascension. He had been granted authority equal to the Father's authority, Paul didn't say he was still waiting, he said that had been awaiting until... Like AlanF's illogical insistance that parousia in Matthew 24 should be translated coming and that the NWT is deceitful for not translating it that way. AlanF claiming that you must look at the context and then when showed the clear context by paralleling Matt 24 to Luke 17 totally ignored it because he had no explanation. Here was that parallel again for those who may have missed it: Luke 17 offers a parallel of Matthew 24. An examination of it will reveal the true meaning of parousia. Luke 17: 26 Moreover, just as it occurred in the days of Noah, so it will be also in the days of the Son of man: 27 they were eating, they were drinking, men were marrying, women were being given in marriage, until that day when Noah entered into the ark, and the flood arrived and destroyed them all. Note that 'the days of Noah' = 'the days of the Son of man'. The days of Noah was a time when people were carrying on the everyday affairs of life and took no note of their impending destruction. They took no note of what Noah was saying and doing. How long were the days of Noah when men were taking no note until the flood came? According to Genesis 6:3 Jehovah says of wicked mankind in the days of Noah: "... his days shall amount to a hundred and twenty years.” So the days of Noah before the flood, specified by Jehovah, when men were taking no note of Jehovah was at the very least 120 years. Quite an extended period of time. Enter Matthew 24: 37 : For just as the days of Noah were, so the presence of the Son of man will be. 38 For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, until the day that Noah entered into the ark; 39 and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, so the presence of the Son of man will be. Lets compare this scripture to Luke 17:26,27. Luke: Moreover, just as it occurred in the days of Noah, Matt: For just as the days of Noah were Luke:so it will be also in the days of the Son of man: Matt:so the presence of the Son of man will be. Luke: 27 they were eating, they were drinking, men were marrying, women were being given in marriage, Matt: For as they were in those days before the flood, eating and drinking, men marrying and women being given in marriage, Luke: until that day when Noah entered into the ark, and the flood arrived and destroyed them all. Matt: 39 and they took no note until the flood came and swept them all away, The sentences are virtually the same, almost identical with one notable exception. Luke says 'the days of the Son of man' but Matthew says 'presence of the Son of man'. What can we surmise from this? The 'days of the Son of man' = the 'presence of the Son of man'. And both equal the days of Noah when people were living their everyday life taking no note of what Jehovah's servants were doing and saying. Then the flood came and swept them all away. A time period that lasted over 100 years. The days or presence of the Son of man is not just paralleled by the period when the flood actually swept them all away. The days or parousia of Jesus is paralleled by the days of Noah before the flood also when they were taking no note of what was to come upon them. The days that someone is present involves not only their arrival but the period of days that they remain after their arrival. Likewise today, for the most part people are living their everyday lives not taking any note of the days or presence of the Son of man and that Jesus is gathering his people into one ark or organization for survival of the impending destruction to be brought upon this wicked system. So in conclusion, this proves decisively that the presence or parousia or days of the Son of man is a specific extended time period that begins before the actual destruction of the wicked system when people are taking no note of God and his reigning King and what he is doing and taking no note of their impending destruction just like the days of Noah which lasted over 100 years. In view of this definitive and undeniable scriptural evidence, parousia is no brief coming at the destruction of the wicked as many would have you believe. Not only that but parousia in Matthew 24 can accurately be translated by its root meaning presence and presence accurately depicts the entire meaning of parousia because the days or parousia of the Son of man covers many many years just as the days of Noah covered many many years. This is made an even more a serious act when one takes into account that over the past hundred years or so, the WTS has reinterpreted its own interpretations numerous times, often dramatcially changing their content and meaning. ThirdWitness has ignored all the issues, and numerous questions that bring him theological pain. What thirdwitness has ignored is your attempts at sidetracking this thread to something that people who studied with JWs should already know unless they have totally returned to the vomit of Christendom. As I have said before I have no desire to try to teach those who have returned to such vomit such as the Trinity, hellfire, the creative days, preterism, etc etc. He has proved himself to be a theological child, admitting that he was unaware if the Preterist and Patial Preterist viewpoint of the very scriptures that he seeks to establish as 'truth', a viewpoint that directly relates and answers the conundrum that he seeks to preach about. Absurd! Preterists are defeated in a mere question. What Great tribulation came in the first century that was greater than all others that resulted in the destruction of all the wickedness? 99 percent of the people here probably know that preterism is just plain ignorant and does not require wasting our time on. I believe that ThirdWitness has ignored every single question that I have asked him over the past few weeks, excepting two. One admitting his theological ignorance as noted above, the other admitting that he was not one person, but working as a team. You have no idea about what you are saying. You are as lost as a goose. As all the questions that I asked were on-topic, and very much undermined his preaching, readers can only assume that he and his team have been incapable of answering them. As a parting shot, I will ask one final question, which will probably be ignored : Can you provide a list of prophetic interpretations of the Bible, unique to the WTS, that have actually come true the past sixty years? Sure all the question you asked are on topic. Just like this last one, right?
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crazyblondeb
BLAH, BLAH, BLAH.................
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jayhawk1
Hilary step knows that the Bible clearly shows the 7 times ended in 1914,
Let's just stop on this thought by Thirdwitness. If it is so clear for all to see, why does the average JW have a hard time explaining it? When I studied the Live Forever book first with a publisher and then that same chapter with an Elder (who was a member for about 30 years) neither could explain it without the help of the book. So much for it being clear.
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thirdwitness
If you would just for a moment set aside your hatred for JWs and examine the scriptures without prejudice.
It was without a doubt shown by Paul that Jesus after going to heaven sat at the right hand of God waiting until his enemies were placed as a stool for his feet. Heb 10:12 But this [man] offered one sacrifice for sins perpetually and sat down at the right hand of God, 13 from then on awaiting until his enemies should be placed as a stool for his feet.
Isn't it amazing that God's rulership toward the earth was trampled on from 607 to 1914 then after Jesus was installed as King in 1914 the trampling stopped. The waiting came to an end. No longer was God's rulership under the feet of the nations. The situation was reversed and now the enemy nations were a footstool for Jesus' feet. He received the crown in 1914 and went forth conquering or subduing in the midst of his enemies as Psalms 110 tells us. As you read Psalms 110 notice the order of the action that Jesus takes.
2 The rod of your strength Jehovah will send out of Zion, [saying:]
“Go subduing in the midst of your enemies.”3 Your people will offer themselves willingly on the day of your military force.
In the splendors of holiness, from the womb of the dawn,
You have your company of young men just like dewdrops...5 Jehovah himself at your right hand
Will certainly break kings to pieces on the day of his anger.6 He will execute judgment among the nations;
He will cause a fullness of dead bodies.
He will certainly break to pieces the head one over a populous land.Did you notice what he does after becoming king upon Mt Zion? First he collects together his large army. These are the ones preaching the good news. Then he breaks kings to pieces. This is Armageddon.
It is in line with Revelation 6:2 And I saw, and, look! a white horse; and the one seated upon it had a bow; and a crown was given him, and he went forth conquering and to complete his conquest. We know this is Jesus because Revelation 19 tells us outrightly that he is the rider of the white horse. And this lines up perfectly with Matthew 24 showing Jesus' presence would be accompanied by food shortages, war, pestilence just like the horses of Revelation. It is amazing!
There are numerous scriptures that tells us that Jesus would become king after his ascension to heaven. Daniel 7:13,14, Daniel 2:44, Revelation 11 and 12, Luke 19 about securing kingly power, to name a few.
Yes, the truth is really simple. It is the apostates that want to mislead you and make it complicated.
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thirdwitness
In a nutshell:1914:
The 7 times of trampling ended. Daniel 4.
Presence or days of Christ began. Matt 24, Luke 17.
Christ waiting came to an end, a rod of rulership was given him, from Zion he came forth, and his enemies were placed as a stool for his feet. Heb 10:13. Psalms 110.
Christ was given a crown and his ride on the white horse began. Revelation 6.
Christ secured kingly power. Luke 19.
Michael began standing up in behalf of his people. Daniel 12.
In the days of the final king the stone was cut out that became a huge mountain. Daniel 2:44.
The Son of man gained access to God's throne and received kingdom and power in the days of the little horn that became great. Daniel 7:13,14.
The kingdom of the world did become the kingdom of our Lord and of his Christ. Rev 11:15.
Jehovah God took his great power and begun ruling as king. Rev 11:17. It came to pass the power and the kingdom of God and the authority of his Christ, because Satan was hurled down. Rev 12:10.
It is very simple. Nothing complicated here.