by lola28 42 Replies latest jw friends
Absolutely NOTHING wrong with being a janitor or window cleaner.
That's right Gill.
But.......what are some of the attitudes on the part of these people? Some don't get all preachy, but others do. That's where I have a problem. I don't care what someone does for their work, but don't get all self-righteous with people, ya know?
Juni
I a'm not, never have been a JW, etc.
I have every respect for anyone who does a job well and I feel that they can take pride in that, whatever the job may be.
But I make no apology for banging on about my favourite subject here, and it echoes what others wth personal experience of the JWs are saying.
These people are absolutely NOT qualified to deal with abuse issues, child or adult.
Letting them get involved in these issues is dangerous for the victims, especially child victims.
No disrespect to anybody for how they earn their living, but to accord 'elders' some sort of status in real-world matters, or the 'organisation' as a whole come to that, is non-sensical and can be deleterious for all involved.
Everything said about the honorable work of physical labor is true, but I think ya'll are missing the point. Or points.
I probably meant 'detrimental' rather than 'deleterious' so forgive me.
I only popped home for a shower between bars (a bit hot here).
like many other people, my issue with uneducated (and often emotionally challenged) men being handed power over other men and women who perhaps very often have emotional problems of their own and have joined the jw for that reason, is just wrong.
i know an elder who thinks he is and always has been partly autistic. he has no real grasp of emotion and admits it, but yet sits in judgement on people going through emotional hell on judicial committees, df's them, shuns them etc. he's uneducated apart from by society literature since birth, does a dead end job and always has, it's a routine.
i suppose my view is basically that when people need help, those they turn to for that help, should be appropriately qualified and experienced to help, not just wear a badge that says 'authority figure'.
Also, in the UK, these same uneducated men are allowed to read your medical records. The NO BLOOD card in the UK has a section for signing to allow the local Hosp Liason committe access to your medical notes.
Do you want thel local, window cleaner/ janitor reading YOUR medical notes and being involved in your emergency life and death decisions?
Basically these men are untrained in very much except for following the directions of the WTBTS.
As to the issue of confidentiality, the local HL committe leader around here is a used car salesman. Even after I had left the JWs for several years, I knew all the details of an operation on a young JW man whose appendix had burst, down to his temperature, what the surgeon said when he came out of theatre to the HL Elder, the mans next bowel movements etc. Is that right do you think, Lola?
I mean does it really matter what they do for a living as long as they are making a living honestly? No - in fact I know few and they make a very good living and I am please for them - all Kudos. I does not matter what people do for a living and they should not be looked down on - BUT THAT WORKS BOTH WAYS - They should not look down on those who choose to get educated. Please tell me why it is okay to take shots at ppl. who are doing honest work, what does it matter to you if someone is a pioneer and cleans houses to support him/herself, how does that HURT you? They are not frightened to take potshots at people who get educated - listen to the 2005 drama about Athens, Paul, Timothy - the whole drama was anti-education. If they (the WTBTS and representatives) can take potshots in a very public setting such as a District Convention, then they should expect potshots back on a discussion board. They CAN NOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS.
I often see posts here where some take shots at elders and witnesses for working as janitors and window washers, and it's always bothered me. I mean does it really matter what they do for a living as long as they are making a living honestly? Please tell me why it is okay to take shots at ppl. who are doing honest work,
Well lola,
I personally do not think that it's okay to take shots at people just because they don't have a good / high paying job. I have many personal friends (non-Witnesses) who have menial type jobs. They are really good, decent, honest, and hard working people who I respect.
I think that we sometimes get into this issue whenever we talk about how the WTS has actively discouraged Witnesses from higher education. This is something that I have bitterly resented about the WTS, even while I was still a Witness. There are many Witnesses who could have gotten a better education, but chose not to because they seriously believed that they were following the counsel of the Almight God himself.
However, I have personally observed many Witnesses who have displayed an open hostility to any kind of higher learning or education. Many of them have seemed to have a perverse pride in being uneducated and not being very intelligent. It's a bizarre form of arrogance in reverse. These are individuals that have never done any kind of independent research into world history, mythology, and archeology. These are people that I chose to criticize; not for the kind of jobs they hold, but because of the arrogant and narrow-minded attitude that they have shown toward having a basic knowledge about the world around them.
A few years ago a few months before I got out of high school I told and elder that I was thinking about going to college that fall, he just looked at me and said “Do you realize how stupid you are? You will be wasting for years of your life”, I was stunned into silence, the next day on Sunday I went up to one of the elders and told him what this elder had said to me, I also added that unless brother E*** was willing to support me and pay my bills he should not offer his opinion on what I should do with my time.
I have been called materialistic more than once, especially when I started using my job as an excuse to miss meetings a sister went as far as asking me if money was my new god and believe me I have seen how strongly higher education is looked down on.
I agree with all of you, elders have no training and should not be placed in a position to give advice to members of the congregation they are not qualified to do so and my guess is that they cause a good amount of damage to the flock. It just seems that it’s not
only the elders that some have issues with but also members of the congregation that have chosen to do these menial jobs. I understand the anger some feel because we all realize that these people could be doing other things with their lives but they have chosen to be witnesses and they are dong hard honest work, I don’t see why some are so set on ridiculing them.
I don't think they mean it to be demeaning of the profession, actually you can make a lot of money doing janitorial work. I think the sentiment is more of a if the society hadn't discouraged higher education, there would be those that fulfilled their desire to pursue more of a secular education and pick a career that they enjoyed. I don't think any kid ever says as they are growing up, ooh, I want to be a janitor when I grow up and clean toilets. Even though I have a pretty well paying job, I would have liked to have gone to college and do something different than what I am doing now. But my whole life all I ever heard was "armageddon is right around the corner."
this is as far as I got, but I had to say, it is pretty much what I meant when I said it. Having been a janitor and doing it since I was 8 full time for many years, I saw all my friends doing that too. Most of us would have loved to be encouraged in school. It is an honest living and if I had to do that again of course I would. Sorry if I offended you lola. I should have stressed the education thing more.
