by Naeblis 24 Replies latest jw friends
Ok, stay with me here. So far I've seen no opposition to my statement that not ALL bible writers were prophets and some were merely inspired.
My next question. Were these bible writers who were "inspired" inspired in the same way that the Faithful and Discreet Slave is? And if not, why?
I just wanted to bring this back up so Naeblis can get on with whatever point he was making, good luck!!
Chris
If I see another "bringing this to the top" post I'm going to blow up a building.
Naeblis, Thomas Paine wrote that the original meaning of the term "prophet" in the biblical sense was a poet, or a songwriter. David was a prophet in this sense.
"Prophets" used hyperbole and language designed to induce emotional response. They probably never meant to have been taken seriously by anyone, in a literal sense.
Hope that doesn't help.
That's all well and good but I wasn't asking Thomas Paine's opinion. Whether the prophets intended to be taken at face value or were speaking poetically to invoke a reaction is also not the focus of my question. I suppose I'll simply come out and lay everything on the line.
If we can concede that not all bible writers were "Prophets" as Jehovah's Witnesses understand them to be, but that some were merely inspired, since the Faitful and Discreet slave claims to be inspired are they putting themselves on the same footing?
If that is not the case, I ask Why not? Where is the distinction and is there several levels of inspiration?
If so, can there claims that their being merely inspired allows them a certain level of inaccuracy mean that those same inspired writers of the bible were also sometimes wrong in what they wrote?
Can you find me one place in the bible where an inspired writer wrote something and was later corrected by another bible writer??
This is just something that came to me in the shower :P and is not meant as an attack, I am just trying to clarify where the FDS places themselves. Thanks
Okay, Naeblis (btw, I can't be your drinking partner tomorrow, sorry!).
The JW leadership does not claim inspiration on the same level as Bible writers. They claim to have possessed unique direction by means of God's holy spirit to deduce how prophecies and doctrines are to be understood. In a progressive sense, of course.
When King Saul 'acted like a prophet,' what do you suppose that meant? In what sense was Abraham, or Moses prophets? Those are clues to understanding what a prophet is, biblically, and how the Society applies that label to themselves.
The FDS does not initiate prophecy. It merely attempts to prayerfully comprehend existing prophecy. It also asks as spokespersons for God as ambassadors of the established Kingdom by proclaiming both Jehovah's judgments and denunciations, and his glad tidings of good will towards men who take sides with him and his righteousness.
I was lookin forward to drinkin you under the table! :P
Anyways, ok Ican understand where they believe they are placed. Is there any biblical support for it?? Or is it a convenienct way to keep themselves in a line of influence without leaving themselves vulnerable to criticism?
Vulnerable to criticism? Are you kidding me? Ever go to a JW chat room or visit a xtian site that discusses JWs? One of the first things criticizing JWs is their claim to be "prophets."
I would recommend you purchase Greg Stafford's book, "Defending JWs" and read what he has to say about propheteering as it applies to JWs.
As far as biblical support, well, most Bible prophets were wrong, or they misbehaved, or did something along the way to incur the wrath of the Almighty. JWs feel that they are no different. Of course, it appears to me that both the JWs and the Bible prophets were all basically just plain silly.
And, Naeblis, I will take you up on your offer some time when borders aren't so clogged up with security. Imagine if I told the border officer that I was going to Toronto to get really drunk with some dude I met on the internet.
To be clearer, I meant it allows them to sit in a position of authority while at the same time protecting themselves from criticism from their own followers. Personally, I think they made some pretty bold statements in the past about their influence, realized they went too far and attempted to backtrack.
That being said, what does their use of the word "inspired" MEAN? I remember from my days as a dub they inferred that they were somehow guided into decisions but I cannot help but wonder why this same guiding spirit would allow them to err? It's one thing to say, "you, as a people, are not READY to know this information," and I could live with that if it was the case, but the flip flop on issues that are outside of bible prophecy seem to indicate that either they are "guessing" on these matters, or they are lying about their level of inspiration.
Where is the benefit in this capricious, often erring spirit??
Also, you are indeed correct when you say that even prophets in bible times erred in terms of conduct. But did they ever err in prophecy? Thats the question.
And good point about the border situation *laugh*
Officer: State your business sir.
Cygnus: Umm, I'm going to Toronto to get drunk with some internet geeks.
*silence*
Officer: Please step out of the car sir.
Cygnus said- As far as biblical support, well, most Bible prophets were wrong, or they misbehaved, or did something along the way to incur the wrath of the Almighty.
Curious, what are some good examples of prophets in the Bible being 'wrong'?
Penn
Naeblis,
Jonah was wrong about Ninevah. Moses never got to see the promised land. Jeremiah stopped prophesying. All were still used by Jehovah.
The Society has never claimed the type of inspiration you are getting at. They've come close, but not quite. Again, I recommend Stafford's book.
Penn,
Ezekiel said Tyre would be destroyed and uninhabited to time indefinite. Other prophets said that when Messiah appeared all nations would beat their swords into plowshears. Jesus said that some of his disciples would still be alive when he came in Kingdom glory to judge all men with his angels.
None of that was true.
