just wanting to talk to someone...

by airwlk149 21 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  sf

  "It's hardly a secret that children without fathers face a more difficult time coping with the challenges of life."

  And My opinion is that this is bullshit! A dick does NOT a dad make!!

  sKally, www klass
• 

  Cygnus

  The only real experience I have had with lesbians is that I have done quite a bit of work for several lesbian couples. Never seen a kid with them, though. However, every lesbian couple that I have been hired by have been by far the nicest, most understanding, easy to get along with clients I have had the pleasure to do business with.

  Lesbians rule!
• 

  Teirce

  "Normal" is not a good word in this instance. What does "not normal" mean but abnormal? "Abnormal" is "normally" a medical term, a bad one. Flee from Jehobalon the Great, and touch nothing unclean, including sentiments and judgements of 'normalcy'. - Teirce 83.18 ;)

  Andee says "To deliberately bring into the world a child without a father is contemptable, IMO. Two women do not take the place of a father, period." - I'm curious - Would you agree that women have acquired increasing rights, volition and wherewithal in the West? Would you agree that women have to take on the masculine role of disciplinarian for awol fathers, all the time? The statistics are not bad for single-parent families where the volition and wherewithal conditions are met. How, exactly, in this day and age, are women incapable of providing the discipline necessary for the objective of raising their child as a respectful human being? (That's the most commonly cited objective.) In biology, males are genetic cross-polinators and are more disposable after the birth of young. What is it about human society that requires male paternal patronage throughout life, that is not needed in the animal kingdom? Does this indicate a belief that women are absolutely helpless without men, in this respect? (And how Airwalk's situation got transmuted into her not knowing what a father is, I don't know. Airwalk never remotely indicated anything about her father.) I would just ask Andee to clarify her line of questioning.

  Airwalk said "but how would we have a baby together. i would love it if it could come from both of us" - Not to burst your bubble of disbelief, but I think this has been done with animal ova. I won't go searching for it, but it had something to do with combining the DNA of one ovum with that of the host ovum. Not sure if it was successful, not sure if it's a false memory. Much much getting done in that area.

  "then when i reflect back on how i feel, i feel icky because these things are coming out of my mouth. my mother would shit a brick." - I can only think to suggest you might let your mother know that it's now 2001AD. We're in the third millenium. Maybe that's harsh, I don't know. (Actually, what's your mom's position on the JW's?)

  Sorry for being harsh, guys. I'm new, I'm no one, I'm about to get shooed by Eman. I just see some Jehovaism Kling-ons that could stand a little Raid. Might burn, I know. Sorry. I get burned by the gf all. the. time. To hell with me!
• 

  sf

  Cyg!!!!!! A nap, my ass. hahaha sweat dreams
• 

  Andee

  Hello All,

  I would like to respond to those that responded to my post.
• 

  Andee

  Okay, let's try this again.

  Andee, Hopefully they would bring the child up to be open-minded and understanding. She wanted kids and she was a lesbian, what is there to say??? I believe two loving 'mothers' is better than one loving mother or a mother and an abusive father or a father and an abusive mother or parents that don't love their kids.

  I agree with you on this one except for one thing. It is still better to grow up in a loving home with a Mother and a
  Father.

  Plus, the argument against Dads always seems to come down to abuse. Of course it's better than living with abuse! I come from the stand point of everything else being equal. Plus, I believe that women or men that knowingly make kids with abusers ought to have their heads examined.

  It's not so bad, anyway, one of the mothers could adopt a more fatherly role, I don't know...

  I'm not sure what you mean here. Men are meant to be Fathers. I guess they could put on a suit and tie and act more manly. No matter what women do, they cannot be Fathers. Yet, many sure make great Moms!

  SK,

  And My opinion is that this is bullshit! A dick does NOT a dad make!!

  I would agree with you an that also. I was referring to the special relationship that a child has with a "Dad". That cannot be duplicated by a Mom, or two Moms, no matter how hard she/they tries. I should have made that more clear in my post.

  Teirce,

  - I'm curious - Would you agree that women have acquired increasing rights, volition and wherewithal in the West?

  Yes, I would agree with this. However, just because they can
  deliberately make a child without a Dad doesn't mean they should. Anyway, my argument is for the childs best interest not for womens rights. Those are not one in the same.

  Would you agree that women have to take on the masculine role of disciplinarian for awol fathers, all the time?

  Yes, I would agree with that statement. However, that does not make it a good thing. Especially when it comes to teenage boys. Did you ever check the statistics of our prisons? I read somewhere that 80% of inmates in the US did not grow up with a Dad in the home. I think there is a definite connection there.

  My agrument is not against the poor women that has been abandoned by thier husbands and left to raise the kids alone. I am talking about single woman, man, lesbian couple, homosexual couple, that thinks that either sex, as a parent, can be irrelevant. I strongly disagree with this. Besides, if we were talking about AWOL Mothers I think most would agree that a Father could never replace a Mother. I believe that both are equally important in the raising of a child.

  The statistics are not bad for single-parent families where the volition and wherewithal conditions are met.

  Not bad? OK, I will accept that. However, I would be willing to bet the statistics for a home with a Mom and Dad are even better.

  How, exactly, in this day and age, are women incapable of providing the discipline necessary for the objective of raising their child as a respectful human being? (That's the most commonly cited objective.)

  I think they are perfectly capable of that. I just think they are incapable of being a Dad. Ask any experienced family therapist or family court judge how important having a Dad around is.

  In biology, males are genetic cross-polinators and are more disposable after the birth of young. What is it about human society that requires male paternal patronage throughout life, that is not needed in the animal kingdom? Does this indicate a belief that women are absolutely helpless without men, in this respect?

  Exactly that, we are human with all the feelings and experiences that come with it. I could go into a big psuedo therapy session about how we are different from animals, but I think you know what I mean.

  I certainly think it has been proved that women are not helpless without men. Being a women myself, I certainly don't hold that opinion. I just have the belief that child benefits greatly by having both a Mother and a Father raising them. Yes, A woman can do it alone. Yes, a man can do it alone. My argument is should
  they do it alone? That being, making that choice. To me, that makes much difference.

  Quite frankly, I think that Katie should be applauded. At least she asked the question. Most do what they want because they feel entitled. They do not take into account that this human being will grow up and have to live with the consequences of the choices made by their parent.

  (And how Airwalk's situation got transmuted into her not knowing what a father is, I don't know. Airwalk never remotely indicated anything about her father.) I would just ask Andee to clarify her line of questioning.

  I asked those questions for Katie to pose herself. She was the one who asked about whether or not is was fair to raise a child with two Moms and no Dad. Sometimes, when we put ourselves in the place of the kid we see things from a different perspective. Many times, parents make selfish choices that make a life for their kid that they themselves would not want to live.

  Andee
• 

  claudia

  Air, I think in the end whats important in a childs life is love and attention. think of what really messes kids up? Sure he/she may have different things to deal with but love covers things. Also, my son had a homosexual teacher, a man. He was the best teacher ever! I was NEVER worried that he would try anything on my son. No teacher talks about their sexual preference in the classroom, so why do so many think they will try to convince kids to be gay?
• 

  Andee

  Claudia,

  I just wanted to make clear that I have no problem with gays or lesbians. I would have posted the same thing if Katie were a single heterosexual female wanting to have a baby by herself.

  I wouldn't care if my kids teachers were homosexual. Quite frankly, I think that ANY discussion of sexuality in the classroom is inappropriate whether it be straight or gay. I also think that people should be treated with respect and dignity regardless of their sexual orientation.

  One of my spouses closest buddies is gay. He has known him since childhood. He came out to my husband when they were in their 20's.
  My Mother-in-Law refers to this time as "When Joe turned gay"..[8>]

  Andee
• 

  claudia

  Andee, I know what you meant. And yes it is ideal having mother and father.
• 

  Teirce

  Thanks for clarifying Andee. I want to back up claudia, also: My homosexual math teacher was the second-finest teacher I'd ever had, by virtue of his classic, disciplined character. His free mind was on greater things than pettiness.