Materialism and those with "spiritual experiences"

slimboyfat

More and more I find myself coming to a materialist view of the world. I don't believe in afterlife, ghosts, angels, auras, astrology, revelations and the like. So what am I to make of people who claim to have spiritual experiences? Some of them seem like very nice, sincere people - some even on the board here who claim to have had spiritual experiences.

Yet, if I am true to that of which I am progressively becoming more convinced, that all that truly exists is the material world around us, then how can I avoid viewing those who claim spiritual experiences as anything but either 1) deluded or 2) dishonest.

This would not be a problem on purely evidential grounds, since it is clearly possible that all claiming spiritual experiences are indeed deluded or dishonest, were it not for the fact that many who claim such experiences appear both decent and intelligent.

Then there are historical figures like Jesus, Paul and Joseph Smith. Were they all either mad or bad?

Is there another possibility that allows for the integrity both of materialism and of persons claiming such experiences?

Slim

Gretchen956

Why do you need to put these other people in your box with you? You have your belief system and I truly respect you for it. You have obviously put a lot of thought into it and have not gone into it lightly. Just accept that we have done the same and have found something that works for us. Doesn't matter if it doesn't work for you, it isn't about you. What you have found doesn't work for me, and thats ok!

Peace, friend, we all have our own paths.

Sherry

diamondblue1974

Yet, if I am true to that of which I am progressively becoming more convinced, that all that truly exists is the material world around us, then how can I avoid viewing those who claim spiritual experiences as anything but either 1) deluded or 2) dishonest.

To be honest this is where religious intolerance starts; when a person cannot see beyond their own belief system and regards others as lesser for believing different.

Its easy done given our background SBF but you have to understand that just because you or anyone else believes, it doesnt mean that others should be condemned or looked down on for being different.

DB74

LittleToe

Balanced comments thusfar, hence I've only a little to add:

The guy who thinks his perspective is the only one is an idiot, and so am I

hemp lover

"Is there another possibility that allows for the integrity both of materialism and of persons claiming such experiences?"

Um, an open mind? I used to try really, really hard to explain away other people's spiritual experiences, but I'm thinking now that maybe I was just jealous that nothing like that ever happened to me. I think healthy skepticism is....healthy, but I feel sometimes like I'm surrounded by people who are so dismissive. Who the hell are we to say that someone's lying or being deceitful about what's probably the most amazing thing to ever happen to them?

And I agree with Ross that he's an idiot. ;-)

jaredg

i think part of the problem is that being a JW were were taught to believe in an absolute truth, and that truth has to explain everything thing. you can consider those who have had spiritual experiences as delusional or dishonest in order to fit the truth in which you believe, b/c if you admitted that these were true then that would create cognitive dissonance. i think once we are able to let go of the theory of absolute truth, then accepting other peoples beliefs becomes much easier.

done4good

Agreed. As witnesses it was not optional to believe some things that were taught to us, and not others. It was all or nothing at all. It certainly explains my leaning towards atheism, but I'm beginning to use terms such as "leaning" much more liberally now. I think the longer we are out of the org, the easier it is to be more accepting of others beliefs, and more open to modifying our own.

j

jaguarbass

Good question. My answer is the earth here is the forum for many truths. We are spirits having human experiences.

nicolaou

The guy who thinks his perspective is the only one is an idiot

As is the guy who thinks that ALL perspectives are equally valid - they aren't - and neither am I

Double Edge

My answer is the earth here is the forum for many truths. We are spirits having human experiences.

Interesting. I read something similar a month or two ago: "Most people believe we are material beings in search of a spiritual experience, when in fact it is quite the opposite - we are spiritual beings here for a material experience".

Materialism and those with "spiritual experiences"

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